[Liberator]

No one seemed to see or cared to answer my question in one of the Medical threads, loaded though it was, as to what the minimum birthrate a society needs to not slip into decline.

Answer, approximately 2.11 children per family.  England, for you Brits among us, has a mean birthrate of around 1.8, France 1.9, and Germany is something like 1.6.  The US is 1.9, add in the Latino factor and it jumps up to 2.09 or 2.10.

Despite this, England's population rose last year as did France's and Germany's due to immigration of outsiders not of the existing culture.

I'll put this is simpler terms, in less than 40 years, give or take, France, Germany and maybe England aren't going to be the countries they are now, because the people who are these countries will be dead or elderly, and the majority population now will be a minority.

This disturbs me greatly.  i mean this is the kind of thing that nightmares are made of.

[zookeeper]

I'll put this is simpler terms, in less than 40 years, give or take, France, Germany and maybe England aren't going to be the countries they are now, because the people who are these countries will be dead or elderly, and the majority population now will be a minority.

This disturbs me greatly.

Uh, ok. Why and how exactly?

[iamzack]

Because he's xenophobic. Western culture is superior to non-Western culture. Et cetera.

[Liberator]

Well, more like I'm way nationalistic and don't want to see my country fall, and honestly, yours either.

[Kosh]

This disturbs me greatly.  i mean this is the kind of thing that nightmares are made of.

So white men not having absolute dominance = the end of the world?

[iamzack]

Uh, why would a country fall due to whites not being the majority?

Nationalism is more harmful than good to any country anyway. Also, it's gross.

[zookeeper]

Well, more like I'm way nationalistic and don't want to see my country fall, and honestly, yours either.

But the same question still applies: why?

Of course, all of this is just assuming that the whole "countries fall" scenario holds true, which is a debate I'm rather uninterested in (and would also require some expertise in the field, too, I'd imagine).

[Locutus of Borg]

Look what's happening in the US. Obama wants to establish death panels to kill the whites, and he's doing it cuz he wants repirations...or that's what Glen Beck has been telling me...

[Darius]

Multiculturalism

This pleases me greatly. I mean this is the kind of thing that dreams are made of!

[Narvi]

If it makes you feel better, the massive population gain from third world countries will eventually result in energy usage so extensive that the earth itself will collapse into a black hole.

But it'll be ruled by white men!

[TrashMan]

This disturbs me greatly.  i mean this is the kind of thing that nightmares are made of.

This disturbs me too.
People who lived in a country for countless generations are the backbone of the culture. Too much immigration and too few newborns in the country lead to the decline of that very backbone.

In other words, the country will change. The culture will change. It won't be the same as it was. Skin color is irrelevant. Culture isn't.

You'll lose one aspect of the culture. Something you can't re-create or bring back again. And that is sad in a way.

[Snail]

More end of the world stuff?

Liberator, stop worrying and enjoy life. This **** is hardly going to effect you directly or indirectly in any way shape or form. Except maybe the chocolate rations going down a bit, and maybe a lack of razors, but who really cares?

[Turambar]

Oh hey, it's the conservatives showing that deep down, they're racists who fear change.

who'da thunk

[The E]

What Liberator et al don't seem to get is that culture changes over time. You cannot force it to stop changing, or conserve it in a state of your liking. Young people and immigrants, wherever they come from, are a primary catalyst of said change.
Oh, and trying to impose a cultural freeze is doomed to failure.

Right. Now, as a german, all I can say to the immigrants is: Come on in. Sure, the Germany I'm living in right now is not the Germany I was born in, and the Germany I will die in will be different still, but since this is perfectly natural (and if it wasn't happening, I'd be worried) I can't quite see why this would be bad.
Some of the changes will be good, some of them will be bad. But short of emigrating to a culture that holds up the exact value set I like, there is very little I can do to affect that change. And always remember: Just because YOU don't like it, change doesn't have to be bad for everyone.

Oh, and listening to Liberator whine about immigration is quite funny, considering that he's from a country which is built on immigration. There is no fundamental difference between the white immigrants of the 1800s (ever watched Scorcese's Gangs of New York?) and the hispanic and asian immigrants that are coming in today.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I'll put this is simpler terms, in less than 40 years, give or take, France, Germany and maybe England aren't going to be the countries they are now, because the people who are these countries will be dead or elderly, and the majority population now will be a minority.

This disturbs me greatly.  i mean this is the kind of thing that nightmares are made of.

You know. Before Europe invaded Africa, Australia, Asia and the Americas, people living there had cultures too.


So . . . is this a nightmare? Or is it justice?


And quite honestly I'm sick to death of all this "oh the immigrants are ruining my country" bull****. Some people in Canada have a problem with immigrants. I as a person living in Vancouver am a visible minority compared to the combine asian population. There are so many immigrants from china here that some people call vancouver "hongkouver" (spl?).

But to me that's a pile of bull**** anyway. Canada wouldn't exist without the trans-continental railroad that was built on the backs of chinese labour. And white immigrants are in and of themselves new to this continent anyway. The only people who have the right to complain about immigrants are the native population.


And as for culture. The real threat I think is from corporations, not immigrants. Coca-Cola's been trying to get england to stop drinking tea and switch to coke for years. McDonalds is trying to get everyone to stop eating their local food and eat their cheap psuedo-food instead. It's the Media that influences people. The number#1 plastic surgery in North America is what, bigger boobs? The number#1 plastic surgery in places like Korea is on the eyelids to make the individual look more western. Maybe Europe is getting flooded with african immigrants but are europeans suddenly eating african food? wearing african clothes? watching african TV? no. But they probably are watchign american tv, eating american food and wearing american clothes and I doubt many americans are emmigrating to europe.

[Narvi]

You know, if you try too hard to "preserve your culture", you'll end up like the French. You should see some of the craaaaazy laws and stuff they have there related to their language.

[General Battuta]

You live in a country that consists ENTIRELY OF IMMMIGRANTS.

Listen. Seriously. Read what I'm going to type here:

100 years ago everyone was freaking out about the IRISH TAKING OVER.

The Catholics were coming to destroy America.

We're still doing fine.

Calm yourself. Everything is going to be okay. The fact that your precious country is not going to consist primarily of white people does not mean the end of the world. Believe it or not, white people have not been the power-holders in the world for most of history, and yet Earth has done just fine.

If anything the fact that our birthrates are below 2 is great; it means fewer, better-educated, better-cared for people.

[TESLA]

No one seemed to see or cared to answer my question in one of the Medical threads, loaded though it was, as to what the minimum birthrate a society needs to not slip into decline.

Answer, approximately 2.11 children per family.  England, for you Brits among us, has a mean birthrate of around 1.8, France 1.9, and Germany is something like 1.6.  The US is 1.9, add in the Latino factor and it jumps up to 2.09 or 2.10.

Despite this, England's population rose last year as did France's and Germany's due to immigration of outsiders not of the existing culture.

I'll put this is simpler terms, in less than 40 years, give or take, France, Germany and maybe England aren't going to be the countries they are now, because the people who are these countries will be dead or elderly, and the majority population now will be a minority.

This disturbs me greatly.  i mean this is the kind of thing that nightmares are made of.

You were watching that youtube video on the rise of islam in Europe based on population and culture decline?

its a load of nonsense the BBC ran a story about that video.

Read the article.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8189231.stm

[General Battuta]

Liberator's xenophobia apparently extends to the point where he doesn't realize that immigration is the lifeblood of these countries.

The true death knell would be if people stopped immigrating. That would mean the First World nations are no longer places people need to, or want to, enter.

[High Max]

I like immigration. It is better than always seeing the standard white person. The only downside is if the immigrant gives up their own culture. Good thing that if they are not born here, they usually hang on to their own culture, as evident of them having their own communities, instead of converting to what I would call a much worse culture like here. Maybe if enough of them hold on to their culture when they move here, it might have a positive cultural change in the USA and introduce more health and kindness as well.

Second of all, strange that Liberator should complain about immigrants when the white men are the true immigrants. It was very bad for them to take over the indians like they did. the Indians were very kind and the white man misunderstood them and started war with them. Seems like white men are too war going for my liking, on average. Also, it seems that many Americans think that so many people want to come here because they like it when a lot of times, they just come here because they have family members born here and want to see them and more want out than people here think. Many foreigners have certain things to say about USA that I feel as well, like it being too superficial, but the media tries to make everyone think that they all love it here.