[Sushi]

There is no fundamental difference between the white immigrants of the 1800s (ever watched Scorcese's Gangs of New York?) and the hispanic and asian immigrants that are coming in today.

True.

You live in a country that consists ENTIRELY OF IMMMIGRANTS.

Listen. Seriously. Read what I'm going to type here:

100 years ago everyone was freaking out about the IRISH TAKING OVER.

The Catholics were coming to destroy America.

We're still doing fine.

Indeed, IMHO we've been enriched by this.

Personally, I have no problem at all with Latino immigrants (or any other kind for that matter). I'll go so far as to say that I don't even have a problem with the Spanish language gaining in use and importance in certain states. I don't speak it, but I'll make darn sure that my kids do if Latino immigration continues like it has. Realistically, though, I don't think that it will continue forever. It will plateau, the older generation that doesn't understand English will die out, and their kids will grow up speaking English just fine. And they'll be Americans, adding their cultural significance and value to our own (BORG!).

I guess I believe that if you merge two cultures, the likeliest outcome is that you end up with the best of both. That's not always true, but IMHO true more often than it isn't. And I see a lot more to respect and admire about Latino culture than I do to dislike... Oh, looks like Flipside and Battuta already covered that.

you act like there's some kind of American culture worth protecting.

our culture is based on what giant multinational corporations decide they can sell us and that's pretty much it.  

It's true that there is a lot of materialism in American culture, but that's not ALL of it. There are plenty of good parts too. If you live in America (not just watch it on TV) and still can't see them, then I feel sorry for you.

[Mr. Vega]

Just because a people has done wrong in the past doesn't mean it's ok for bad things to happen to it in the future.

Can we at least admit that western civ is vastly superior on the feminist front, in part because of people like you. Yes, you. You are a part of western civ, believe it or not. Dissent does not make you an outsider.

[Flipside]

Thing is, Western Cultures' been picking and choosing from Eastern culture for centuries, there's several British 'traditions' that were born in the Middle East. It also should be noted that we are talking 4-5% of the population here, about 3 million Muslims out of a national population of nearly 60 million, it's just that the concern looms large because of the current popularity of extremism, and the ongoing assumption that every Muslim in the world is a suicide bomber waiting to go off...

[Mr. Vega]

And read my earlier post god dammit before all of these replies.

And really, I have no fear of hispanic immigrant on America. They're good people.

But doesn't the nature of the immigrating party matter? If the birthrate of the immigrants is overwhelming the native population, doesn't that mean the native population is screwed if it keeps up? If there isn't enough time to assimilate before this happens, isn't the original culture screwed as well? And if the immigrant culture requires women to cover their heads all the time and acquits a lot more rapists, is that really a good thing.

THINK ABOUT THIS before you butcher me. Do all of those questions return a no? Do they?

Sweet gimminy, I wanna play devil's advocate for two seconds and this is how you treat dissent nowadays.

[Mr. Vega]

Thing is, Western Cultures' been picking and choosing from Eastern culture for centuries, there's several British 'traditions' that were born in the Middle East. It also should be noted that we are talking 4-5% of the population here, about 3 million Muslims out of a national population of nearly 60 million, it's just that the concern looms large because of the current popularity of extremism, and the ongoing assumption that every Muslim in the world is a suicide bomber waiting to go off...

Britain is fine. France and Germany, on the other hand...

[General Battuta]

But doesn't the nature of the immigrating party matter? If the birthrate of the immigrants is overwhelming the native population, doesn't that mean the native population is screwed if it keeps up? If there isn't enough time to assimilate before this happens, isn't the original culture screwed as well? And if the immigrant culture requires women to cover their heads all the time and acquits a lot more rapists, is that really a good thing.

These are the same claims that have been made about immigrant groups for centuries. They hardly seem more credible today.

Immigrant birthrate will, if anything, impoverish them rather than place them in power.

THINK ABOUT THIS before you butcher me. Do all of those questions return a no? Do they?

I've examined your points fairly.

Sweet gimminy, I wanna play devil's advocate for two seconds and this is how you treat dissent nowadays.

The unfortunate fact is that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Sometimes it gets out of hand, yes, but I don't think it's so much a knee-jerk suppression of dissent as the fact that many people are just sick and tired of hearing attempts to justify what they see as hate and fear.

Not to say that you're hateful and fearful, but inevitably your suggestions will be lumped in with those espoused by people like Liberator.

[iamzack]

But doesn't the nature of the immigrating party matter? If the birthrate of the immigrants is overwhelming the native population, doesn't that mean the native population is screwed if it keeps up? If there isn't enough time to assimilate before this happens, isn't the original culture screwed as well? And if the immigrant culture requires women to cover their heads all the time and acquits a lot more rapists, is that really a good thing.

I really just don't care. Onoes, there will be more hispanics than whites in the US... so what?

As for the feminism issue, women are blamed when they are raped in pretty much every culture. Western women aren't really at much less risk of being killed by (ex) boyfriends or husbands than Muslim women. We're allowed to talk, but that doesn't mean anybody listens.

But it's not Islam anyone should be worrying about, if they are worrying about Christianity losing popularity. Atheism is on the rise. :3

[The E]

Britain is fine. France and Germany, on the other hand...

Evidence please.

[Mr. Vega]

Britain is fine. France and Germany, on the other hand...

Evidence please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil_unrest_in_France

[General Battuta]

 

America has had race riots with both immigrants and non-immigrants too.

[Mr. Vega]

But doesn't the nature of the immigrating party matter? If the birthrate of the immigrants is overwhelming the native population, doesn't that mean the native population is screwed if it keeps up? If there isn't enough time to assimilate before this happens, isn't the original culture screwed as well? And if the immigrant culture requires women to cover their heads all the time and acquits a lot more rapists, is that really a good thing.

I really just don't care. Onoes, there will be more hispanics than whites in the US... so what?

As for the feminism issue, women are blamed when they are raped in pretty much every culture. Western women aren't really at much less risk of being killed by (ex) boyfriends or husbands than Muslim women. We're allowed to talk, but that doesn't mean anybody listens.

But it's not Islam anyone should be worrying about, if they are worrying about Christianity losing popularity. Atheism is on the rise. :3

Firstly, so you think a hundred and fifty years of the feminist movement in the western world has accomplished absolutely nothing? Wow. Not only is that completely false, it's pretty contemptful as well.

Secondly, I am an atheist silly.

These are the same claims that have been made about immigrant groups for centuries. They hardly seem more credible today.

The birthrate of the native population has never been so low. That's why it could be relevant today.

[The E]

*snip*

Which was a reaction to social conditions that the immigrants lived in, partially because of people who don't want immigrants to integrate into the culture they are emigrating to.

Commenting other demonstrations in Paris a few months later, the BBC summarised reasons behind the events included youth unemployment and lack of opportunities in France's poorest communities.
The head of the Direction centrale des renseignements généraux found no Islamic factor in the riots, while the New York Times reported on 5 November 2005 that "majority of the youths committing the acts are Muslim, and of African or North African origin" local youths adding that "second-generation Portuguese immigrants and even many children of native French have also taken part."
The BBC reported that French society's negative perceptions of Islam and social discrimination of immigrants had alienated some French Muslims and may have been a factor in the causes of the riots; "Islam is seen as the biggest challenge to the country's secular model in the past 100 years". It reported that there was a "huge well of fury and resentment among the children of North African and African immigrants in the suburbs of French cities". However, the editorial also questioned whether or not such alarm is justified, citing that France's Muslim ghettos are not hotbeds of separatism and that "the suburbs are full of people desperate to integrate into the wider society."
There is a common perception, especially among foreigners and descendants of the recent waves of immigration, that French society has long made a practice of hiding, or at least whitewashing, its numerous signs and symptoms of racism, xenophobia and classism, by all accounts at least equal in intensity to those in other European countries. Racial and social discrimination against people with "typically" African phenotypes or Arabic and/or African-sounding names has been cited as a major cause of unhappiness in the areas affected. According to the BBC, "Those who live there say that when they go for a job, as soon as they give their name as "Mamadou" and say they live in Clichy-sous-Bois, they are immediately told that the vacancy has been taken." The nonprofit organization SOS Racisme, associated with the French Socialist Party (PS), said that after they sent identical curriculum vitae (CVs) to French companies with European- and African or Muslim-sounding names attached, they found CVs with African or Muslim sounding names were systematically discarded. In addition, they have claimed widespread use of markings indicating ethnicity in employers' databases and that discrimination is more widespread for those with college degrees than for those without.

And now tell me how Germany is in trouble.

[Mr. Vega]

Give it time.

All I'm saying is that it could happen, and if so, is that really what we want to happen? I admit I have worse case scenarios bouncing around in my head right now (German culture replaces Roman, and no, Muslim replacing French won't be anywhere near as bad, it might actually make things better if you like French bashing ), but WCS's have happened in history before, and to just assume the same result will occur when the variable's have changed significantly is not giving it enough thought.

[castor]

And if the immigrant culture requires women to cover their heads all the time and acquits a lot more rapists, is that really a good thing.

A culture cannot be replaced by another (except by force, which is not happening here). Like the people, cultures will be mixed, your people will have their say. And the cocktail will be something you are able to digest.

[iamzack]

Hey, the Romans invaded Greece and Greek culture won.

[Mr. Vega]

That's the best case. And Greece didn't win completely. No way a work as pastoral and anti-war as the Aeneid could have been written by a Greek (ironic, I know, but Roman culture wasn't all about war).

[Colonol Dekker]

Screw everyone else. I was here first

[TrashMan]

To be honest, he's right. After a lot of time in the science of this field I've realized that everyone is a racist who fears change.

Conservatives just tend to put less effort into fighting it and more into justifying it.

I question your science.

Cultural annihilation is not a legitimate fear when cultural power is determined by economic, technological, and memetic superiority rather than numerical force.

Cultural POWER? Who is talking about power? We're talking about cultural identity.

And what does this have to do with skin color?
I don't care if it's whites pushing out blacks or blacks pushing out whites, muslims pushing out budhists or whatever. I'm against pushing altogether.

[General Battuta]

Fortunately, there's just melding and hybridization. No pushing.

I'll be happy to educate you. Would you like some journal articles on ingroup/outgroup bias? Implicit association tasks? Shooter studies?

[StarSlayer]

Screw everyone else. I was here first

Heh for some reason that reminds me of this bit in Heart of Oak a book about an enlisted sailor's experiences in the RN during WW2, it was pretty cool the kid was in a lot of the major actions in the Atlantic, including when the Duke of York popped the Scharners.  The part in particular I'm thinking of was during some convoy mission the Yank tin cans hauled down their colours which in the Andrew means surrender.  Obviously the Brit sailors where taken aback by this until one of the more educated matelots pointed out it was July 4th and explained it was the US Independence Day.  Sure enough the US ships hauled up fresh ensigns which prompted one of the sailors to ask why Britain didn't have an Independence day, he was promptly smacked in the back of the head and told "We've always been bloody independent!"