[QuantumDelta]

Which America is closer to being than the UK btw

[Mongoose]

The funny thing about the whole spectrum is that ultraconservative winds up being very close to ultraliberal when you talk about end results.

[General Battuta]

Yeah, that's very true. Very true.

It's pretty absurd how every time liberals are in power in the US the conservatives shriek 'communism', and every time the conservatives are in power people shout 'fascism!'

[iamzack]

What's really absurd is social conservatives screaming fascism like it's not their goal.

[QuantumDelta]

The major problem, one of the major problems, for there are several, with governing people is that of who you get to do it. Or, rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. To summarize: it is a well known and much lamented fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

[Sushi]

The major problem, one of the major problems, for there are several, with governing people is that of who you get to do it. Or, rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. To summarize: it is a well known and much lamented fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

R.I.P Douglas. 

On a side note, I just finished his less-well-known book Last Chance To See. It's very good.

[Flipside]

I just love the massive, massive variation of the meaning of the word 'Liberal' in the US, it's almost like an expletive over there, if you don't like it, it's Liberal.

[Mongoose]

Not only that, but from a political science standpoint, true "liberalism" historically falls far more in line with our traditional definition of "conservatism" than the "social liberalism" that it's come to define.  The terminology is kind of one big kerfuffle nowadays.

[SpardaSon21]

FDR started the confusion it when he started describing his programs as "liberal".  Before then those programs would have been termed "progressive".

[BloodEagle]

Liberally Progressive Conservatism? 

[Flipside]

Liberally Conservative Socialism?

That's my kind of politics

[Mongoose]

I prefer auto-dictatorship.

[mxlm]

It's pretty absurd how every time liberals are in power in the US the conservatives shriek 'communism', and every time the conservatives are in power people shout 'fascism!'

I guess you missed that whole 'Liberal Fascism' thing.

If so, you're a lucky man. Because it turns out that

Mussolini was born a socialist, he died a socialist, he never abandoned his love of socialism, he was one of the most important socialist intellectuals in Europe and was one of the most important socialist activists in Italy, and the only reason he got dubbed a fascist and therefore a right-winger is because he supported World War I.

[General Battuta]

Kindly reread my post.

Pay close attention to the 'in the US' part.

I'll add an extra parameter of 'since the Cold War'.

[mxlm]

Ah, I was unclear; my point was that recently American conservatives, or at least some American conservatives, have 'discovered' that fascism and socialism (and, depending on who you talk to, progressivism and liberalism) are the same thing.

[blackhole]

I just love the massive, massive variation of the meaning of the word 'Liberal' in the US, it's almost like an expletive over there, if you don't like it, it's Liberal.

Only to 80% of our population. The smart people, on the other hand, tend to describe themselves as liberal.

I usually skip the whole categorization thing and just describe myself as "someone you really, really don't want to argue with."

[Nuclear1]

I just love the massive, massive variation of the meaning of the word 'Liberal' in the US, it's almost like an expletive over there, if you don't like it, it's Liberal.

Only to 80% of our population. The smart people, on the other hand, tend to describe themselves as liberal.

I usually skip the whole categorization thing and just describe myself as "someone you really, really don't want to argue with."

Anyone who openly calls themselves "liberal" or "progressive" honestly has way too high an opinion of themselves.  Likewise, anyone who describes themselves as "conservative" outside of the way they dress or maintain their appearance, or politically "traditional" has a habit of living in the Dark Ages or being a massive hypocrite for supporting the current Republican Party.

There are some conservative ideas that just make sense:  yes, we shouldn't be spending through the roof, and yes, we have an obligation to look into our past to see how we've grown as a country.  On the same token, America has always been a liberal and progressive nation:  if not, we'd probably still be English.  The damn Cold War ****ed us.  Ever since the damned propaganda wars between the US and the USSR, "progressiveness" and "liberalism" have automatic associations in an uncomfortably large number of Americans' minds as substitute words for "Soviet communism", and anything "traditional" or "conservative" has automatically been equated with Mom's apple pie and baseball.

I mean, God bless the Cold War generation, but the filth both sides are putting in their children has got to stop...extreme hippie parents telling their kids the military is out to get them and ultrarightwing parents drilling the "LIBERAL=COMMIE" idea into their offspring's heads.  Parents have got to let their kids develop on their own...America won't grow if they don't.

[Nuke]

The major problem, one of the major problems, for there are several, with governing people is that of who you get to do it. Or, rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. To summarize: it is a well known and much lamented fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

thats what nukes are for.

[karajorma]

You need the conservatives as well as the liberals. If you have only liberals then your society would basically turn into Britain, which the next logical step being V from Vendetta.

V for Vendetta was supposed to be a warning of what would occur following the continuation of Thatcherite policies. So you're so far off the mark it's quite funny.

[Kosh]

You need the conservatives as well as the liberals. If you have only liberals then your society would basically turn into Britain, which the next logical step being V from Vendetta.

V for Vendetta was supposed to be a warning of what would occur following the continuation of Thatcherite policies. So you're so far off the mark it's quite funny.

If only the author had known about Bush and Blair.