[iamzack]

You're making some pretty big assumptions there, Liberator. I think capitalism is a great economic system.

I just don't think it's perfect. Unregulated capitalism is just as bad as pure communism.

[Flipside]

It's the interaction between Capitalism and Politics that is the problem to be honest, when companies attempt to massage the law in order to allow them to market a new product, or attempt to influence a Senator because their product contains toxic material and they don't want to have to accept responsibility, then something is going wrong to my mind.

[iamzack]

Yeah, that's capitalism beating the regulations, isn't it? Without regulations, they'd make more profit because they wouldn't have to lobby. And what's good for business&stockholders is good for America! ..right?

[SpardaSon21]

Flipside, I don't see why a company should have to massage the law in order to be able to sell a new product.  Can you provide an example of why a company should be forced to seek permission from the government in order to be able to market a product?

[Turambar]

Flipside, I don't see why a company should have to massage the law in order to be able to sell a new product.  Can you provide an example of why a company should be forced to seek permission from the government in order to be able to market a product?

Drug Companies.

[General Battuta]

Flipside, I don't see why a company should have to massage the law in order to be able to sell a new product.  Can you provide an example of why a company should be forced to seek permission from the government in order to be able to market a product?

The 1900s-1920s.

[NGTM-1R]

Patent Medience.

[karajorma]

For most of the wealthy people I know, it was a long time coming and they worked harder than most to get there.

Bollocks.

This is just "The poor are poor because they don't try hard enough" in another form. You look at any end of the pay scale and you'll find people working bloody hard. From the pauper working two jobs to have enough to feed their kids to the millionaire with no social life cause work is everything.

[iamzack]

It also fails to take into account that rich people don't get rich in a vacuum. They may not be stepping on people to get where they are, but their wealth is built on the foundations that the government provides to everyone.

[BlueFlames]

Can you provide an example of why a company should be forced to seek permission from the government in order to be able to market a product?

Sport Utility Vehicles.

Though quite obviously passenger vehicles, under the law, they are classified as light trucks, as opposed to large cars or vans.  This permits auto makers to build them to lower standards of environmental impact and passenger safety.  If you can stand the soul tax that accompanies that, it helps reduce the per-unit dollar cost.

[BloodEagle]

http://www.entertonement.com/clips/pmpppkcngk--Never-meet-emission-standardsMom-Professor-Futurama-Futurama-Season-5-

[General Battuta]

I really don't get you iamzack.  I'll grant that you are young.  But most people become Capitalists pretty quick when they have to provide for themselves when they get out into the big bad world.

Another thing, you talk like you dislike wealthy people simply because they are wealthy and that they must have climbed over someone and oppressed them to get they're money or were just plain lucky.  For most of the wealthy people I know, it was a long time coming and they worked harder than most to get there.

Actually, scientifically speaking, most wealthy or successful people start out with some kind of advantage. Check out Malcolm Gladwell, 'Outliers'.

Plus, your hypothesis totally fails to take into account the fact that there may be many more who who work hard for a long time and fail to get anywhere.

In other words it's meaningless and doesn't make the basest logical sense.

[Blue Lion]

You know all this time I thought I was working hard.

[Mars]

I know someone who's working a full time job (bus driving), a part time job (bar tending), and going to college full time.

He makes $40,000 a year, $6,000 of which goes straight to school.

He's 45 years old.

He's worked hard all of his life.

Don't tell me you make what you earn liberator.

[Liberator]

40k is not an uncomfortable living presuming you don't live beyond your means and control your debt.  I've heard tales of folk making that and less paying obscene amts of debt and living happy and free lives when they're not burdened by that.

[Flipside]

Flipside, I don't see why a company should have to massage the law in order to be able to sell a new product.  Can you provide an example of why a company should be forced to seek permission from the government in order to be able to market a product?

It's not just a question of releasing new goods, take the petrol companies, and lead in petrol, take Tobacco and Nicotine poisoning, take toys with toxic paint on them, all of those were not caught nearly quick enough not because of lack of knowledge of the danger, but because of the political power of the organisations that produced them. That is the danger to my mind, when profit is more important than public safety, and I'm not talking about Government coming into your homes, I'm talking about the very thing the Government is there for, to protect and support the people that vote them in, when that suffers for profit, I can't help thinking that something is wrong with the system.

[General Battuta]

40k is not an uncomfortable living presuming you don't live beyond your means and control your debt.  I've heard tales of folk making that and less paying obscene amts of debt and living happy and free lives when they're not burdened by that.

Could you not ignore all the arguments raised in response to points you make? It'd make you look a little bit less some kind of repeater for conservative talk radio.

And try living on 40K without health insurance.

[Liberator]

40k is not an uncomfortable living presuming you don't live beyond your means and control your debt.  I've heard tales of folk making that and less paying obscene amts of debt and living happy and free lives when they're not burdened by that.

Could you not ignore all the arguments raised in response to points you make? It'd make you look a little bit less some kind of repeater for conservative talk radio.

And try living on 40K without health insurance.

Why should I bother replying to anything any of you say?  You think my beliefs are foolish and that I am an idiot.  I couldn't say anything that could possibly be taken seriously in this atmosphere.

[General Battuta]

That's absolutely untrue. I am capable of separating my feelings towards your opinions (often very misinformed, such as the last one I critiqued) from my feelings towards you (probably a decent chap from a very different culture, possibly a bit too trusting.)

Seriously, I am aware of the fundamental attribution error.

On the other hand if the things you say keep getting shot down, then just ignoring them means you'll never learn anything, which does make it look like you're just putting your hands over your ears, rocking back and forth, and humming.

[Liberator]

From my perspective, your side is one doing the humming.