Author Topic: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey  (Read 5769 times)

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Offline deathfun

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
Okay, I took the time to beat the first level

I played simulator difficulty. Well, what can I say about the constant spinning wildly out of control into the ground? I try to perform a simple task, one that a P51 could easily perform... but instead it wants to stall

Must be the sensitivity and the fact I am used to pushing the joystick all the way to perform a task in any game.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
Yeah your going to be screwed trying to do it like that, I ended up poking around the BoP forums for the tip about the elevator sensitivity.  I dialed it way down and I hardly ever stall or get caught in a spin.
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Offline IceFire

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
I'd really be stoked if Ace Combat would delve into different eras, WW2/Korea/Vietnam aircraft sets would be a lot of fun and a nice change up rather then keep using modern jets.   I'd be stoked for a little Crusader vs Fishbed action
I read a rumor once saying that something like that was going to happen.  But they may have had their sources crossed because the Aces team was working on Sky Crawlers for the Wii in Japan which is loosely WWII air combat related (very loosely).
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Offline deathfun

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
That would indeed come in handy so I wouldn't have to worry about "Am I going to push this a millimeter too much and spin to a horrible death?"

However, I did manage to destroy several anti air with that method of using my plane as a spinning bomb. Most fun I had all day
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
I'd really be stoked if Ace Combat would delve into different eras, WW2/Korea/Vietnam aircraft sets would be a lot of fun and a nice change up rather then keep using modern jets.   I'd be stoked for a little Crusader vs Fishbed action
I read a rumor once saying that something like that was going to happen.  But they may have had their sources crossed because the Aces team was working on Sky Crawlers for the Wii in Japan which is loosely WWII air combat related (very loosely).

I've seen some of the trailers but I haven't seen the movie but the aircraft look pretty snazzy.  The pusher prop/canard one seems like a further developed version of the Shinden and another looks a bit like a FW190 D-9/P-51/F4U hybrid.  Unfortunately the Wii game doesn't look that interesting, the graphics don't seem to stack up and I can't figure flying with a Wii remote.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
You could presumably hold it sideways and use it as a makeshift yoke.  I think that's how the plane mini-game in Wii Sports Resort works, and that received favorable comments from what I saw.

 

Offline MR_T3D

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
You could presumably hold it sideways and use it as a makeshift yoke.  I think that's how the plane mini-game in Wii Sports Resort works, and that received favorable comments from what I saw.
still, no motion-senor can beat a normal joystick.
if it turns out good for a game, i might consider picking it up next summer.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 10:39:12 am by MR_T3D »

 

Offline IceFire

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
I'll just wait for the new Ace Combat extravaganza :)
- IceFire
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
It is funny, I had a dogfight against two Bf-109Es in my Spit MKII.  Took about fifteen minutes, we started at about 3000 ft but most of it was tree top level (and below) over a snow covered Ardennes.  In fifteen minutes on Ace Combat 6 I'd probably have upwards of 30 kills, however two kills in BoP in sim mode is very gratifying.  I think its because you need to fly by the claws in BoP, most of the fight is spent trying to locate the targets and getting your plane into position for the kill without getting riddled with holes or just plain falling out of the sky from bad plane handling.  I will need to load up 1946 whence i get a new PC :D
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Offline IceFire

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
What are two 109Es and a Spit II doing over the Ardennes?
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 
Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
Yep...this IL-2: http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Info.aspx?pId=5163&tab=download&dcId=63

At the moment...its the best of the WWII air combat simulators available anywhere.  The graphics aren't as fancy as the new console version ...largely because IL-2 is several years old now.  But with the various updates to flight models, graphics, and so forth its still an incredible game.  Having around 250 flyables (fighter, bomber, dive bomber, attack/strafer, etc.) doesn't hurt either :)

I tried that game but after chasing a fighter for 20 minutes and finally running out of ammo without shooting him down I sorta gave up on it. Aces over Europe was a lot easier from what I can recall. Wings of Fury even easier!!! :D

 

Offline IceFire

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
Yep...this IL-2: http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Info.aspx?pId=5163&tab=download&dcId=63

At the moment...its the best of the WWII air combat simulators available anywhere.  The graphics aren't as fancy as the new console version ...largely because IL-2 is several years old now.  But with the various updates to flight models, graphics, and so forth its still an incredible game.  Having around 250 flyables (fighter, bomber, dive bomber, attack/strafer, etc.) doesn't hurt either :)

I tried that game but after chasing a fighter for 20 minutes and finally running out of ammo without shooting him down I sorta gave up on it. Aces over Europe was a lot easier from what I can recall. Wings of Fury even easier!!! :D
Yeah then IL-2 isn't really the sort of game meant for you :)  No offense intended either.  Not everyone is into the simulation aspect but IL-2 is a truly great WWII air combat simulator. Real techniques and tactics work pretty much down to the hard numbers.  Although the 20 minutes of chasing and the running out of ammo is something that eventually you can train yourself out of.  Its not a game that you can pick up and blast stuff in a few minutes. I was very hesitant to try it out because of that actually...but I ended up being hooked.
- IceFire
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Offline deathfun

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
Cure to running out of ammo (without putting unlimited ammo):
Take care in aiming your shots

It's harder when you don't have a little reticule showing you where to shoot too
"No"

 
Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
Cure to running out of ammo (without putting unlimited ammo):
Take care in aiming your shots

It's harder when you don't have a little reticule showing you where to shoot too

I was firing in bursts, taking care to try to hit the guy. I was in an Me-109 or something. I hit him a few times, got him smoking, but I never put him down. I don't think it came as any surprise to me afterwards that the tutorial recommends flying a mission where you shoot down friendly bombers first, then enemy bombers, then fighters . . .

The thing that bugs me most about that game, and most about similar games is that they don't tell you HOW to fly. Like, what are flaps and aerolerones (spl?) for? How and when I should use them. I get the impression flaps are for take-off and landing to generate more lift and reduce airspeed but the thing is the game doesn't actually TELL you that. And that annoys the hell out of me. Or if it does tell me, I didn't see it anywhere. It's like these games expect people know how to fly an airplane before they buy it. What game expects you to know how to play before you purchase? It's stupid.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
The thing that bugs me most about that game, and most about similar games is that they don't tell you HOW to fly. Like, what are flaps and aerolerones (spl?) for? How and when I should use them. I get the impression flaps are for take-off and landing to generate more lift and reduce airspeed but the thing is the game doesn't actually TELL you that. And that annoys the hell out of me. Or if it does tell me, I didn't see it anywhere. It's like these games expect people know how to fly an airplane before they buy it. What game expects you to know how to play before you purchase? It's stupid.


...There are people who don't know basic aviation terminology and aerodynamics? :nervous:

There are Training tracks in the PC version. I don't know if there are in the Console version, might be dumbed down on that regard... but yeah, simulators do tend to assume you have some basic knowledge to start with. Reading some short introduction to aerodynamics might help, else you need to learn how the dynamics work in the game and guessing things tends to lead to you losing airspeed, stalling and spinning out of control especially with console controllers I can imagine.

Perhaps someone should record the IL-2 Training tracks and upload them to Youtube or something...
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 
Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
The thing that bugs me most about that game, and most about similar games is that they don't tell you HOW to fly. Like, what are flaps and aerolerones (spl?) for? How and when I should use them. I get the impression flaps are for take-off and landing to generate more lift and reduce airspeed but the thing is the game doesn't actually TELL you that. And that annoys the hell out of me. Or if it does tell me, I didn't see it anywhere. It's like these games expect people know how to fly an airplane before they buy it. What game expects you to know how to play before you purchase? It's stupid.


...There are people who don't know basic aviation terminology and aerodynamics? :nervous:

There are Training tracks in the PC version. I don't know if there are in the Console version, might be dumbed down on that regard... but yeah, simulators do tend to assume you have some basic knowledge to start with. Reading some short introduction to aerodynamics might help, else you need to learn how the dynamics work in the game and guessing things tends to lead to you losing airspeed, stalling and spinning out of control especially with console controllers I can imagine.

Perhaps someone should record the IL-2 Training tracks and upload them to Youtube or something...

I've heard the terms, I have some idea as to how it works but I've never actually read up on the thing. And I certainly shouldn't have to read a non-game source to play a certain game.

I have IL-2 Forgotten Battles. I don't know if the training things are on there.  I get the impression it's a standalone expansion not the original game. I mean really, it takes like 1 page of the manual to lay these things out to the player. What are the advantages for example to using the rudder to turn, as opposed to banking and "climbing". When to use some things, when to use others.

When I first started the game I couldn't even get off the ground because my plane kept veering left and cartwheeling. Apparently I need to compensate for the spin of the prop with the rudder. Like, that should be basic information for the player. Shouldn't have to email my brother to learn the answer (he's where I got the game as he had two copies for whatever reason). And I certainly shouldn't have to waste time on the internet trying to google answers.

If anything a lack of this kind of critical information makes these games less accessible to new players. If I were a brand new player I probably would  have just said screw it and taken the thing back to the store (not that I can take back PC games mind you, stupid stores).


 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
I've heard the terms, I have some idea as to how it works but I've never actually read up on the thing. And I certainly shouldn't have to read a non-game source to play a certain game.

I have IL-2 Forgotten Battles. I don't know if the training things are on there.  I get the impression it's a standalone expansion not the original game. I mean really, it takes like 1 page of the manual to lay these things out to the player. What are the advantages for example to using the rudder to turn, as opposed to banking and "climbing". When to use some things, when to use others.

When I first started the game I couldn't even get off the ground because my plane kept veering left and cartwheeling. Apparently I need to compensate for the spin of the prop with the rudder. Like, that should be basic information for the player. Shouldn't have to email my brother to learn the answer (he's where I got the game as he had two copies for whatever reason). And I certainly shouldn't have to waste time on the internet trying to google answers.

As far as I recall, the training tracks were included in the Forgotten Battles release of the game. If I'm wrong, my bad.

If they were available (as I recall... can't bother to install just FB to check) they do demonstrate this kind of things. Including the breakdown of flight control into basic components - thrust, pitch, roll and yaw. And the takeoff track did tell you to use rudder to compensate for the torque induced yaw - but failed to mention that this becomes much easier if you lock the tail wheel, since the aircraft will then travel straight forward much easier as logn as the tail wheel is on the ground.

Quote
If anything a lack of this kind of critical information makes these games less accessible to new players. If I were a brand new player I probably would  have just said screw it and taken the thing back to the store (not that I can take back PC games mind you, stupid stores).


Well, what can I say. Take a closer look on the big button on the main menu that says "Training"... There are flaws on the training tracks for sure, for example the inclinometre isn't working correctly on the tracks so even though the turns are actually coordinated, the ball is not on the center.

I don't know if these tracks or comparative versions are available on the Birds of Prey though. If they aren't, I agree that this sort of information should be included.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
I picked up on Il-2 (computer version) pretty easily...

Then again, I've been flying flight sims since elementary school... or before then even.
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Offline IceFire

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
The Training Tracks were included with the game and are actually quite useful.  I just jumped in and learned on my own.  Unlike other games IL-2 and other simulators are games where you can actually read primary source documentation and apply it almost directly into the game.  So background knowledge either develops because of the game or the game develops the need for background knowledge.

They do assume that you know something about flight given that you've just bought a WWII flight simulator.

I do have a bit of trouble identifying here as I knew what the flaps, ailerons and elevators were for at age 4.  That may be a bit unusual I suppose :)
- IceFire
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Offline Thaeris

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Re: IL-2 Sturmovik Birds of Prey
<Thaeris gives IceFire mad props.>

 :yes: :yes: :yes:
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke