Author Topic: Freespace 3  (Read 14121 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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158th shouldn't have been released in its current form. A few days of testing would have caught the major problems.

 
Bull****. Campaigns die because they never complete their mods, feature creep the mods for new and shiney ones that never materalize, or because they don't build their missions. I've been inside the delay spiral a few times by now, sometimes as FREDder, usually as a tester. BWO radically rebuilt a mission based on tester comments that it just wasn't working in its current form in three days, counting intermediate steps. Other campaigns I've tested for have accomplished major changes to their missions based on the existence of plotholes in less time.

Testing and revision is never the cause of significant delay. There is absolutely no excuse for releasing a mission to the public with major bugs in it.

No? Well as an example, taking the recent interview with Ransom. On the gamewarden forums he expected to release Project 03 in October 2006. Now it's almost October 2009, 3 years later, and in the interview he said he has revisited/reworked 2/3rds of the missions? Of course I don't know the full story behind the project but I would call 3 years, for revisions, a significant delay wouldn't you? Even Droid's campaign, he says he finished it last year, it is now 9 months into 2009. I don't know how lengthy his campaign is, but 9 months is a significant amount of time as well.

I'm not talking about bugs either. Of course playtesting should be done to get rid of most of the bugs which make the campaign unplayable. I'm talking about re-doing entire missions because the design no longer meets the standards of the FREDder. Or perhaps the mission isn't "just quite right" anymore. With every mission a FREDder makes their skills potentially improve, if someone wanted all their missions to be at the quality of the last mission at the time of release, then they'd be perpetually re-making all the missions and there'd be no end to it. At some point you just have to release the thing and move on.

158th shouldn't have been released in its current form. A few days of testing would have caught the major problems.

Realizing that there are problems, and addressing those problems are two different things. There is only one real bug in the 158th campaign that I've encountered, that was in mission 3 (aside from project limits being broken). It may take only a few days to playtest, but it will takes weeks or months to rework it because most of the flaws that I perceive were in the overall mission and campaign design itself. So a person is stuck with the same thing, never finished, and loses motivation and just quits working on it . . .

Creating campaigns and other content is all about motivation and momentum. You can concentrate on a campaign, and get a lot of work done, or you can lose focus, go play Halo or join your 5th campaign project and leave the other 4 projects on the six year backburner. And when it comes to motivation and momentum, doing revisions is a real killer. Again, this is not about fixing bugs, any campaign should be play-tested for bugs by at least the author before release. But story revisions, re-doing entire missions, so on, that can be a terrible drain on motivation and it's the loss of motivation to do work that really kills campaigns.


Maybe the difference here is that I'm mildly OCD and you're mildly ADD. :P

No I'm the sort of person who starts many things and never finishes any of them. So in that mentality, finishing something is where the real value is. That being said I never half-ass things, which in itself is part of the problem because I often overdo things and they then become unrealistic and unattainable. Also I'm a terrible procrastinator, and so I often find any way I can of avoiding work. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the work I've done for Freespace wasn't done when I should've been concentrating on something else.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 05:14:46 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline Droid803

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No? Well as an example, taking the recent interview with Ransom. On the gamewarden forums he expected to release Project 03 in October 2006. Now it's almost October 2009, 3 years later, and in the interview he said he has revisited/reworked 2/3rds of the missions? Of course I don't know the full story behind the project but I would call 3 years, for revisions, a significant delay wouldn't you? Even Droid's campaign, he says he finished it last year, it is now 9 months into 2009. I don't know how lengthy his campaign is, but 9 months is a significant amount of time as well.

Well, truth be told the only reason it took that long was because I was too cowardly to look for testers, sat on my ass, and waited for...I forget how many months until ShadowGorrath got fed up with my shyness asked for testers for me. :P The actual fixing of the missions doesn't take very long for the most part.

During that time I was working on other things like ASW and another project which the first part is almost done (FREDding that is, noone has tested it yet, and it's not done till it's tested), so it wasn't like I was wasting time.

No I'm the sort of person who starts many things and never finishes any of them. So in that mentality, finishing something is where the real value is. That being said I never half-ass things, which in itself is part of the problem because I often overdo things and they then become unrealistic and unattainable. Also I'm a terrible procrastinator, and so I often find any way I can of avoiding work. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the work I've done for Freespace wasn't done when I should've been concentrating on something else.

Ah, that's where the difference is then. I like to finish one thing before starting another. It's kinda hard sometimes since I get 'stuck', but I usually try and push it through till I get it tested and released. I do find it difficult to stick to one thing sometimes, but getting people's opinion and getting testing results have never hurt my drive to finish something. It always helps motivate me when I get new ideas from people, and have some other people's opinions about what should be done. It actually streamlines things like bughunting, I find. Even re-doing parts of a mission (or possibly the mission entirely) takes less time than building the original in the first place. What kills my drive the most is setting up the initial mission, strangely enough.
(´・ω・`)
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Ah, that's where the difference is then. I like to finish one thing before starting another. It's kinda hard sometimes since I get 'stuck', but I usually try and push it through till I get it tested and released. I do find it difficult to stick to one thing sometimes, but getting people's opinion and getting testing results have never hurt my drive to finish something. It always helps motivate me when I get new ideas from people, and have some other people's opinions about what should be done. It actually streamlines things like bughunting, I find. Even re-doing parts of a mission (or possibly the mission entirely) takes less time than building the original in the first place. What kills my drive the most is setting up the initial mission, strangely enough.

What kills my motivation is playtesting the same mission for the 20th time and becoming absolutely sick of it. :(
Anyway, it should come as no surprise that I'm procrastinating doing something right now and it's about time I got to it. . .

 

Offline Scotty

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Did anyone else get a serious Takashi vibe from the guy's first post?

 

Online Aardwolf

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I think we drove him off.

@Scotty: a bit, yes.

 

Offline Qent

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I think we drove him off.
Quote from: spuds' profile
Last Active:     September 25, 2009, 03:25:16 pm
It's possible he hasn't even seen the debate.

 

Offline gavilatius

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how about a Masters of Orion mod? of stand alone?
any one beat the last boss yet?

 

Offline Qent

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how about a Masters of Orion mod? of stand alone?
Is that a new idea or related to this campaign somehow?

 

Offline Thaeris

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No, it's just very off-topic.
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Offline gavilatius

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well, for this freespace 3 thing, it could work if enough people come together and do something, just puoting around isn't going to do much...  but if we actually do this "V" will have to accept it for:

1. its not for profit
2. its made by the community
and
3. "V"'s parent company interplay practically gave up the rights by giving out the source code... (that might be iffy)
any one beat the last boss yet?

 

Offline Mongoose

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I think you'd do well to go back and read the whole thread, champ. :p

 

Offline TopAce

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Read this, too. The release of the source code doesn't mean Interplay gave up any of its rights.
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

  

Offline gavilatius

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oh... never mind, but if its made for free, then its not infringing any rights right?
any one beat the last boss yet?

 

Offline Qent

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:wtf:

This is about an upcoming user-made campaign. It has nothing to do with FreeSpace 3. And yes, as long as it's a mod, he can call it whatever he wants. (Although some names might be better than others....)

 

Offline High Max

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« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 02:10:00 am by High Max »
;-)   #.#   *_*   ^^   ^-^   ^_^

 

Offline gavilatius

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... what if it becomes a Very very good game?  then what?
any one beat the last boss yet?

 

Offline High Max

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« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 02:13:34 am by High Max »
;-)   #.#   *_*   ^^   ^-^   ^_^

 

Offline TopAce

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Just rename it.
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 

Offline Scotty

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Hey, Max, you're back!  Or if you never left, this is my first time seeing you in a couple months. 

I agree.  However, playing the Devil's Advocate here, if Volition hasn't published the ideas, we can't really call it taking them away from them.

Back on the other side, FreeSpace is a copyrighted title, quiaff?  Calling any campaign "FreeSpace #: Subtitle" is a No Go.  "Title: FreeSpace" MIGHT be a go, but I wouldn't press luck. 

Anyway, moot point, as the guy wanting to do it hasn't shown up since the first few posts.