[zookeeper]

As long as you have a roof on your head and stuff to eat, you can make yourself not give a crap about most of the other things you don't have. Being able to ignore the sensation of starving to death would be unreasonable to expect, but most other things...not really. They just don't matter. As long as you think they do, you'll have a problem. You don't need to have anything.

I bet most people's depression stems from their own expectations for their life (such as in terms of social interactions, status and significance), which they've absorbed from the rest of society. Use your head and think about things in a critical manner and sooner or later you'll realize most of those expectations are pointless and you lose the reasons to be unhappy for not meeting them.

Yes, I bet there's depression of purely medical origins, hence "most" and not "all". Still, being zen enough probably still works as a vaccine for that, too.

[Mongoose]

Thanks for the advice, IceFire. To be perfectly honest, I think my own first step has to be seeking out some sort of counseling or psychiatric help, since I've become more and more convinced over the past few years that some things just aren't completely right upstairs.  Part of that is the situation I find myself in at the moment: not only have I never had any sort of romantic relationship (or even a major crush, as far as I know), I also have maybe one actual friend at the most, and I don't have a job to boot.  Hell, I don't speak to anyone on a daily basis other than my immediate family members in my own house.  I do have a group of good online friends that I talk to on a semi-nightly basis, but of course that really isn't entirely the same thing.  I'm kind of at a going-nowhere place in my life right now, I think I've been there for some time, and I don't think I have the motivation or wherewithal to get myself out of it.  You are right in saying that I do sometimes (often?) wish I could actually be doing things with another person I'm close to, but at the same time, I'm okay on a day-to-day basis with not having said person; I've always been very introverted by nature, and I'm generally most comfortable when by myself.  Of course, that doesn't preclude the fact that I really need to talk to a professional about any number of things; in fact, some of that might be the symptoms of what needs talking about.

And seriously, Liberator, coming from someone who recognizes that he probably needs help, you definitely need to talk to someone yourself.  Like Battuta said, what you're describing goes way beyond being a "cry-baby."  The brain can get as sick as any other part of the body, and just as you'd go to a doctor to cure your physical wounds, you need to talk to someone experienced in such matters to deal with the sort of problems that can't be healed with stitches.

[lostllama]

I......wasn't going to post here originally, as I really am the sort of person that tries to keep himself to himself, even on forums. To my own detriment, I sometimes think. But having read the posts by Mongoose, Liberator and IceFire, I feel a bit....not sure, "moved" I suppose to just say that I feel like I'm in the same boat, in several respects.

Not sure I really want to go into details about my situation, but IceFire - that does seem to be some sound advice that could apply to me.

Anyone up for a group hug?

...No pressure.

[Scotty]

As weird as this will sound, bear with me I tend to use this method in time organisation sometimes when i'm hungover. .imagine you're a SIM and decide which of your stats (tidy, social, hunger etc) needs a little attention. Try and get a balance, no point being completely satisfied / a consumate expert in one area, while neglecting others.

This....makes so much sense.  It's too obvious.

[perihelion]

Seriously, another of my faults is I don't get emotionally invested in anything very easily.  High school?  Not even a blip.  College even less so.  I have the emotional range of one-eyed badger.

That's actually  That can actually be a symptom of depression.  I'll leave it to the psychologists and pharmacologists to go into why because I am definitely not an authority on this subject.  But I have observed emotional disconnection to be a very real aspect of depression both in myself and others.  It isn't all breaking down and weeping all the time.  That's just the Hollywood version of depression.  Makes better melodrama.

[MR_T3D]

I......wasn't going to post here originally, as I really am the sort of person that tries to keep himself to himself, even on forums. To my own detriment, I sometimes think. But having read the posts by Mongoose, Liberator and IceFire, I feel a bit....not sure, "moved" I suppose to just say that I feel like I'm in the same boat, in several respects.

Not sure I really want to go into details about my situation, but IceFire - that does seem to be some sound advice that could apply to me.

Anyone up for a group hug?

...No pressure.

GROUP HUG!
once we get another couple people.

personally, i don't invest myself emotionally in much lately, but i an happy about it and with myself.i used to be sad, then i stopped being sad and starting being awsome. true story.

[McCall]

Liberator: apathy, lack of interest... actually that does sound like depression. Happens to lots of folks during their lives, including Winston Churchill. It's usually quite fixable; mine was. And judging by your grammar, you aren't a dumbass!

Mongoose: sounds like you're a bit of a late starter. Maybe that's all there is to it. I was still goofing around wearing NHS specs and studying while the jocks were off scoring. Looking at them now, they're all way fatter and balder than me, and they ultimately ended up doing way worse with the ladies. Might be time to start getting your crap together soon though - don't wanna leave it too late and miss the boat. I got friends heading that way right now.

ShadowWolf does have a point there. Being a pussy (for want of a better word) is not going to help with the girls. Put it this way, as an extreme example: to be serial womaniser and cheat like buggery you have to be a bastard. But is the guy a bastard because he sleeps around, or does he get to sleep around because he is a bastard? Either way, he's a bastard getting laid. I know a lot of folks don't like hearing this kind of take on the situation and may even find it offensive (hope not), but it is honestly what I've seen and experienced. What a world, huh?

Of course, you don't have to be a total git, and it's best if you aren't if you don't want a nagging conscience as you get older. But last time I went really soft it made for one heck of a barren patch. Go figure. Dekker's a naughty (but thankfully normal) boy; he knows what I'm talking about.

This is turning into one interesting discussion. It's certainly allowing people to get stuff out they wouldn't normally talk about. Hopefully it's proving useful too.

[IceFire]

Thanks for the advice, IceFire. To be perfectly honest, I think my own first step has to be seeking out some sort of counseling or psychiatric help, since I've become more and more convinced over the past few years that some things just aren't completely right upstairs.  Part of that is the situation I find myself in at the moment: not only have I never had any sort of romantic relationship (or even a major crush, as far as I know), I also have maybe one actual friend at the most, and I don't have a job to boot.  Hell, I don't speak to anyone on a daily basis other than my immediate family members in my own house.  I do have a group of good online friends that I talk to on a semi-nightly basis, but of course that really isn't entirely the same thing.  I'm kind of at a going-nowhere place in my life right now, I think I've been there for some time, and I don't think I have the motivation or wherewithal to get myself out of it.  You are right in saying that I do sometimes (often?) wish I could actually be doing things with another person I'm close to, but at the same time, I'm okay on a day-to-day basis with not having said person; I've always been very introverted by nature, and I'm generally most comfortable when by myself.  Of course, that doesn't preclude the fact that I really need to talk to a professional about any number of things; in fact, some of that might be the symptoms of what needs talking about.

And seriously, Liberator, coming from someone who recognizes that he probably needs help, you definitely need to talk to someone yourself.  Like Battuta said, what you're describing goes way beyond being a "cry-baby."  The brain can get as sick as any other part of the body, and just as you'd go to a doctor to cure your physical wounds, you need to talk to someone experienced in such matters to deal with the sort of problems that can't be healed with stitches.

I'm glad what I said might be useful ... I'm in a bit of a spot myself right now but its a weird thing where giving some advice out sometimes helps put yourself into perspective.  Often its easier to give advice than to follow it...even yourself.  So I'm trying to follow my own advice as much as I am trying to help anyone else out that I can.

The going nowhere thing a great number of people I know are dealing with right now.  They tend to be males in their mid-20s but not always.  I know quite a few of my female friends as well with the same feelings.  The economy is down, people don't have jobs, or have jobs they don't like, they are stuck in a situation they can't seemingly get out of.  I'm in there somewhere too and as I'm writing this I'm absolutely furious about some things that happened today but this is a huge improvement over me 2 years ago which wasn't really registering on anything and being at best passive-aggressive in situations.

I think its great that you recognize that maybe you need to seek out some professional advice.  MOST people do not have things completely together and being the sort of person I am tend to notice that most people have a mental health issue of one kind or another even if they themselves think they are perfectly fine.  Sometimes you need help.  Sometimes its purely a psychological issue that you need to work out and sometimes its one of those more tricky chemical/structural issues that requires medication of one kind or another.  I actually take a couple of vitamins (based on my doctors recommendation) on a daily basis now to help me out...especially during the winter months. Its made a huge difference.

So ... if you think you need it then go for it.  Nothing at all to be ashamed of.

[Mr. Vega]

Just remember it's also very easy to blame brain chemistry for bad psychological habits and a simple self-sustaining lack of confidence. I say that from experience. Don't use a diagnosis as a crutch.

[General Battuta]

Exercise, diet, and social interaction are certainly all good ways to attack depression.

[Mr. Vega]

Exactly. The easiest cure for depression is an absence of boredom.

[General Battuta]

Yes...but a long depressive episode may not respond to such treatment alone. It's a tricky decision.

[ShadowWolf_IH]

Actually McCall, I honestly beleive that I know the reason that women come out of the woodwork when we are spoken for.  Bear with me.

It has been my experience, and the experience of a lot of my cohorts, that when in a relationship, the offers and general hitting on is very strong.  The same can be said of things during and after my divorce, when I wanted nothing to do with women at all, in my opinion, what was the sense, they'll either die or screw you over. ( I got over it)

Anyway, the point is, when we are with someone, or otherwise disinclined to look for a relationship, we are comfortable with who we are.  We are more ourselves, and because we honestly don't care if we are impressive or not, we carry ourselves with more confidence.  We are simply who we are with no nervous pretension, with no care.  It is attractive and nearly magnetic to the oposite sex.

I am NOT learned in psychology, nor do I pretend to be, but this is what I honestly beleive to be true, the best way to be attractive, is be comfortable with yourself, without trying.  Think  about it like this:

A good matial artist should be able to go from position or stance and strike his oponent.  Jim Lau, Zen in the Martial Arts, pg 97.  The chapter is called "Effortless Effort", and the gist is, only when we stop thinking do we allow what we are to come forth.

I hope this makes sense.

[WeatherOp]

Thanks for the advice, IceFire. To be perfectly honest, I think my own first step has to be seeking out some sort of counseling or psychiatric help, since I've become more and more convinced over the past few years that some things just aren't completely right upstairs.  Part of that is the situation I find myself in at the moment: not only have I never had any sort of romantic relationship (or even a major crush, as far as I know), I also have maybe one actual friend at the most, and I don't have a job to boot.  Hell, I don't speak to anyone on a daily basis other than my immediate family members in my own house.  I do have a group of good online friends that I talk to on a semi-nightly basis, but of course that really isn't entirely the same thing.  I'm kind of at a going-nowhere place in my life right now, I think I've been there for some time, and I don't think I have the motivation or wherewithal to get myself out of it.  You are right in saying that I do sometimes (often?) wish I could actually be doing things with another person I'm close to, but at the same time, I'm okay on a day-to-day basis with not having said person; I've always been very introverted by nature, and I'm generally most comfortable when by myself.  Of course, that doesn't preclude the fact that I really need to talk to a professional about any number of things; in fact, some of that might be the symptoms of what needs talking about.

To be quite honest, I don't think that is something you need help for.  Now I don't know your exact circumstances, but I was just like that. Never had a girlfriend, had a handful of people I called friends but knew they were nothing more than acquaintances, liked being mostly by myself, and like you, I wanted somebody to spend time with., but then again didn't care very much if I didn't.

Now things are so much different, I hate being away from the girl I love dearly, and I'm getting married in December. Whats my secret? I don't have one. I started working where I work now when I completed High School. On the application it asked, "What would I like to become better at?" and I put "Talking and getting to know people better." While it took a long while I am better at speaking to groups, ect. But the thing is, I had practice doing it at my job. The say you have to face your fears to get good at something, and they are right.

My advice is to take Ice's first point by far, above the rest. Since the economy is down, it's hard to find a job, but I'd think that it isn't hard at all to find a place that needs a volunteer here and there and you never know what you will learn that may give you a boost self esteem wise. When I started work at my job I didn't know a whole lot, but now I'm a jack of trades workman who still has tons to learn BTW, but who loves it.

So I'd say that is by far the first thing you should do. Go down to the local animal shelter and volunteer there, or maybe a local farm or the like. Then stick with it, even it it seams to be leading nowhere. Let me tell you, I never expected to find the girl of my dreams where I worked at, but you never know what life's little surprises my bring and they are not all for the worst.

[Thaeris]

I think we need some motivation...

Too long had we dwelt within the crypts of ourselves,
     Subject to the inhibitions of our own insight.
Too long had we feasted on the unsatisfying ash of our own bridges burned,
     Consuming the poison despite sensing the need for change.
Waiting, rotting away as we let our own nature steal our own futures from ourselves...

And why is this the case?

...

But no, this is not, this shall not ever, be our fate or fortune...

And thus I say, no, never again, NEVER AGAIN!
     And spit from my mouth this hateful ash and sulfur, lo,
Even despite the bitter bile hanging between my teeth...
     ...Once more to stand, once again to rise...

Ah, NEVER AGAIN, NEVER AGAIN!

So long have we slept decrepit in this hanus state...

     NEVER AGAIN, NEVER AGAIN!

For the past is dead and irreversible; pity it not!

So long had we spent dwelling in the caves of our minds,
     Lingering on the past or scheming of the future,
But never once lifting a hand to become!

NEVER AGAIN, NEVER AGAIN!

And what, change this ruinous state so as to revel in the feeling?
     PAH!
The feeling changes as a whim, absent and cruel as the mouth of Hell!
     To this would we serve?
I WILL BE DAMNED BEFORE THEN!

And so, what shall we do? What shall I do? I shall tell you!
     I will go onward, unto the end, unto the death...
...Until I can go no further!

The past is an empty husk from which we have already gleaned all that is useful...
     ...The future is a flux who's shift is captured only by the minds of fools and madmen...
...And just as quickly lost by them, leaving nothing but decay in the present...

But I, but we, shall go on from this present day unto the future,
     To conquer it,
          To gain that which MUST BE WON!

And if we are in need, we shall take it!
     And if we are in want, we shall forge what we require from even the very cradle of abandon that is our lot,

...And I, and we... shall never cease...

And lo, though the Hell riseth up to cast us down,
     We charge onward with no doubt or shadow of shame.
And even at the feet, the heel of our oppressor,
     We are not swayed.

And I, and we, go forth,
     Even unto the Pit itself,
          With a tenacity which dictates that I, that we, will not stop...
...Until we have hacked and hewn off the head of the Wyrm himself!

And thus we launch ourselves from this unlivable present forward;
     For the past is unreturnable,
          And awaiting the dawn of another cheap tomorrow is the pinnacle of stagnation...
We advance towards tomorrow, for there is no other place to go.
     And we will press onward until, yes, until there is nowhere left to go...
...Until we have gained what we must gain. Until we have won that which must be achieved!

And yes, verily, we commence,
     UNTO THE END, UNTO THE DEATH!

[WeatherOp]

Actually McCall, I honestly beleive that I know the reason that women come out of the woodwork when we are spoken for.  Bear with me.

It has been my experience, and the experience of a lot of my cohorts, that when in a relationship, the offers and general hitting on is very strong.  The same can be said of things during and after my divorce, when I wanted nothing to do with women at all, in my opinion, what was the sense, they'll either die or screw you over. ( I got over it)

Anyway, the point is, when we are with someone, or otherwise disinclined to look for a relationship, we are comfortable with who we are.  We are more ourselves, and because we honestly don't care if we are impressive or not, we carry ourselves with more confidence.  We are simply who we are with no nervous pretension, with no care.  It is attractive and nearly magnetic to the oposite sex.

I am NOT learned in psychology, nor do I pretend to be, but this is what I honestly beleive to be true, the best way to be attractive, is be comfortable with yourself, without trying.  Think  about it like this:

A good matial artist should be able to go from position or stance and strike his oponent.  Jim Lau, Zen in the Martial Arts, pg 97.  The chapter is called "Effortless Effort", and the gist is, only when we stop thinking do we allow what we are to come forth.

I hope this makes sense.

I have to agree. From what I've seen observing other guys and myself as well is that just about all guys are either two things when actively looking for a relationship.

1. Desperate
2.Unconfident and/or shy in all they do, so they change themselves totally to try to impress the one they are after, and usually fail miserably.

and sometimes it leads to:

3. Playing hard to get thinking they can win the others heard by acting like they don't care if she doesn't like him, or ignoring her when she is just trying to be a friend.

If you are actively hunting a relationship, odds are, you won't find it. Women have some kind of desperation detector built in and they can tell what your after.

[General Battuta]

If you are actively hunting a relationship, odds are, you won't find it. Women have some kind of desperation detector built in and they can tell what your after.

It's not like you'd behave any differently if some desperately pathetic woman was hitting on you, to be fair.

Actively hunting without subtlety nor patience might a better turn of phrase.

[ShadowWolf_IH]

Yes and no  General.   It's a well known fact that the two hemispheres of a woman's brain are better connected than the two hemispheres of a man's brain.  While this allows a woman to be much more adept at multitasking, it makes the man much more focussed on the task at hand, and unfortunately as is all too often the case, we just wanna get laid.  Thus the term coyote maker. lol

[NGTM-1R]

It's not like you'd behave any differently if some desperately pathetic woman was hitting on you, to be fair.

Actively hunting without subtlety nor patience might a better turn of phrase.

I'm not sure that's true. I spent too long looking for a girl to save and got a few disasters for my trouble.. In the end, now, I more or less force myself to react with anger to that sort thing.

[General Battuta]

Yes and no  General.   It's a well known fact that the two hemispheres of a woman's brain are better connected than the two hemispheres of a man's brain.  While this allows a woman to be much more adept at multitasking, it makes the man much more focussed on the task at hand, and unfortunately as is all too often the case, we just wanna get laid.  Thus the term coyote maker. lol

This is completely false, a myth perpetuated by repetition. Womens' brains are no better interconnected than mens'; in fact, on the functional level, the genders barely differ. Nor are women particularly better at multitasking; in fact, men often do better in multitasking situations because they tend to focus on one task at a time.

Had that myth shot out from under me in first year neuroscience.

Men are more likely than women to be receptive to spontaneous advances. However, this is probably a cultural rather than biological effect, and any assertions to the contrary are unsubstantiated.