[Colonol Dekker]

I'm afraid there's nothing in life which isn't yielded from hard graft on somebodies part.
Reality is, the only things which can exist by doing sod all are plants and vegetables, and even then something with more aptitude WILL come along eventally and eat them for not developing at least a basic defense.
 
Don't be a vegetable or a pansy, get out and grind.

[NGTM-1R]

I despise games that involve grinding.

Then, I hate to break it to you, but you're ****ed.

[Mongoose]

I despise games that involve grinding.

Then, I hate to break it to you, but you're ****ed.

Or not, as the case may be.

But seriously, this isn't a matter of not trying hard enough, or not feeling like committing enough time and effort, or anything like that...it's far deeper.  I've always loathed the phrase, "Can't means won't."  Can't doesn't mean won't...it means can't, as in not physically able to.  For me, right now, either I get a head doctor to take a look-see upstairs and see what's rattling around my brain, or the whole world magically conforms itself to my vision overnight, or I stay cooped up in my room for the indefinite future until my parents put me out on the street or something.  Everything else is extraneous.

[Liberator]

I know that feeling all too well.  Feeling it right now actually.

[Rian]

But seriously, this isn't a matter of not trying hard enough, or not feeling like committing enough time and effort, or anything like that...it's far deeper.  I've always loathed the phrase, "Can't means won't."  Can't doesn't mean won't...it means can't, as in not physically able to.  For me, right now, either I get a head doctor to take a look-see upstairs and see what's rattling around my brain, or the whole world magically conforms itself to my vision overnight, or I stay cooped up in my room for the indefinite future until my parents put me out on the street or something.  Everything else is extraneous.

I can sympathize with a lot of the things you described in your earlier posts, though I haven’t experienced anything quite so severe, and I agree that it doesn’t sound like something that you can just fight through on your own. I do hope you’ll go and get some help, because you’ve always struck me as a bright, decent, capable person and it would be a shame to let this hold you back.

[Colonol Dekker]

I can honestly say the main reason for my ability to converse, and therefore successfully interact with a broad range of women is compromise, not physically i.e lowering my standards but on a conversational level. Generalise and don't get specific on subjects unless you know said subjects. Feign interest if you have none and try to get a little background info if you know them through a friend so you can pop into wikipedia and brush up. It's not stalking, it's university of life exam preseration. Be courtious and guage reactions, if a line of conversation isn't going anywhere don't be afraid to change it. Practice your fake smile in a mirror too, good old sims reference.
 
Argh. . . So much knowledge to share, so little time.

[IceFire]

Good advice Dekker!

I spent a good couple of years in university learning how to make conversation easier with people. Especially those I just met.  Turns out its useful everywhere...even at family events.  I still have times where I can't think of a single question to ask someone but usually I can think of something. These are the sorts of questions where you sound genuine and interesting and then you let them talk...  And don't be afraid to do some reading outside of your area.  As Dekker says .... university of life exam preparation.  Brilliant!  

Recently I was impressing a couple of medical students with my medical knowledge and it came from nothing more than reading the science and medicine sections at BBC, CNN and the like.

[Mr. Vega]

I despise games that involve grinding.

Then, I hate to break it to you, but you're ****ed.

Or not, as the case may be.

But seriously, this isn't a matter of not trying hard enough, or not feeling like committing enough time and effort, or anything like that...it's far deeper.  I've always loathed the phrase, "Can't means won't."  Can't doesn't mean won't...it means can't, as in not physically able to.  For me, right now, either I get a head doctor to take a look-see upstairs and see what's rattling around my brain, or the whole world magically conforms itself to my vision overnight, or I stay cooped up in my room for the indefinite future until my parents put me out on the street or something.  Everything else is extraneous.

Well can you start with someone you trust?

[MR_T3D]

Good advice Dekker!

I spent a good couple of years in university learning how to make conversation easier with people. Especially those I just met.  Turns out its useful everywhere...even at family events.  I still have times where I can't think of a single question to ask someone but usually I can think of something. These are the sorts of questions where you sound genuine and interesting and then you let them talk...  And don't be afraid to do some reading outside of your area.  As Dekker says .... university of life exam preparation.  Brilliant!  

Recently I was impressing a couple of medical students with my medical knowledge and it came from nothing more than reading the science and medicine sections at BBC, CNN and the like.

I used to be around the end of august somewhat socially awkward , then i moved from the small town to univerity in the 'big' city, and i just made the effort to be friendly to everyone possible, and just simply talk to them. went from no social skills to beingsocially very comfortable, and i feel so much better for myself as a result . I have no doubt theese skills are VERY useful, and am very glad to have them, i personally developed them rather quickly, in the span of only a week!
However i suspect the grinding hate is mainly based in games, as grinding IRL often rather nice..

[Mongoose]

Well can you start with someone you trust?

Start what?  Sorry, I don't follow.

[Mars]

It is better to **** the devil you know.

[lostllama]

My experiences with strangers, even when dealing with shop assistants and such, often used to get me very anxious to the point that I used to try and avoid such situations. So I think I understand where Mongoose is coming from, it's a deep rooted thing. I occasionally do have the odd pang of anxiety now, but it's much less common, since becoming forced into having to face my fears (for example, since learning to drive I've had to pay for fuel for my parent's car; work has forced me to use a telephone and arrange things with people I don't know, etc). There's many a time that I have wished there could be someone with me, a friend who understands me and my inhibitions well to hold my hand along the way through such experiences, but wishing doesn't work, not for me anyway.

When I'm around people I know, I just feel like I can't be comfortable in their company. I get the feeling that I'm boring them, or annoying them even, and that, even though they're being polite and haven't said anything negative to me, that they'd rather hang out with someone more socially adept and interesting. So I end up letting such relationships lapse. I just get the idea that I'm being a burden to people by simply interacting with them. And that's the last thing I'd want to do to anyone.

Also, I do despair sometimes, because I know acquaintances (people that I used to be friends with but have now grown apart from) that are doing all the fun things people do at my age. Like going travelling abroad, something I've never done. There's a nagging voice telling me that if I don't do something about this, when I get into my 30's or 40's I am really going to regret not coming out of my comfort zone.

[MR_T3D]

My experiences with strangers, even when dealing with shop assistants and such, often used to get me very anxious to the point that I used to try and avoid such situations. So I think I understand where Mongoose is coming from, it's a deep rooted thing. I occasionally do have the odd pang of anxiety now, but it's much less common, since becoming forced into having to face my fears (for example, since learning to drive I've had to pay for fuel for my parent's car; work has forced me to use a telephone and arrange things with people I don't know, etc). There's many a time that I have wished there could be someone with me, a friend who understands me and my inhibitions well to hold my hand along the way through such experiences, but wishing doesn't work, not for me anyway.

When I'm around people I know, I just feel like I can't be comfortable in their company. I get the feeling that I'm boring them, or annoying them even, and that, even though they're being polite and haven't said anything negative to me, that they'd rather hang out with someone more socially adept and interesting. So I end up letting such relationships lapse. I just get the idea that I'm being a burden to people by simply interacting with them. And that's the last thing I'd want to do to anyone.

Also, I do despair sometimes, because I know acquaintances (people that I used to be friends with but have now grown apart from) that are doing all the fun things people do at my age. Like going travelling abroad, something I've never done. There's a nagging voice telling me that if I don't do something about this, when I get into my 30's or 40's I am really going to regret not coming out of my comfort zone.

dude, yjay souunds a little bit like me at that age, when you draduate high school and move out to collage or whatever, jus be CERTAIN to use it as a fresh startm as yiu WILL meet new people whom also don't really kow many others, and so logn as you keep alert  and get out there, and likely supress then nerd/geek within you, you'll do alright.

[Thaeris]

Primarily, sitting on my ass at the computer in my room. But from a social standpoint, I don't do much beyond going to church every week, and even there I'm not looking to talk to anyone before or afterwards.  I've gotten to the point where I'm able to go up to a cashier at a store/eatery and interact with them, which made me feel extremely anxious when I was younger, but I still break out in a cold sweat when I have to talk on the phone to someone I don't know (and even sometimes to those I do).  When I was at college, I did participate in things like mentor meetings and a few clubs where I felt rather comfortable, but even then, there was always some part of me feeling like I had to wall myself off and worrying about how I was coming across to everyone else.  By my senior year, my club activity dropped off a bit, so I spent a lot of time alone in my room; if there was a period of time where the suspect traces of depression were at their maximum, that was definitely it, due to a number of factors.

Mongoose, why don't you try and talk to your pastor? You may not even need to address a problem... Just having someone you know who will uphold your confidentiality in a conversation is a great person to talk to.

When I returned from my last semester at school, my mental state was best described as "severely damaged." I didn't want to talk to my parents about the problems... and if I had to, it was miserable. The problem with very close relations to yourself is often that they spend more time in judgement of you rather than actually trying to empathize and aid you in the issue. However, they did get me to go and talk to a friend and someone whom I trusted; that person happened to be my pastor. And even if we didn't talk about problems, it was good to have a friend to engage in conversation.

[McCall]

This thread's pretty much gone off in two directions, so please excuse my use of a bigass quote.

Actually McCall, I honestly beleive that I know the reason that women come out of the woodwork when we are spoken for.  Bear with me.

It has been my experience, and the experience of a lot of my cohorts, that when in a relationship, the offers and general hitting on is very strong.  The same can be said of things during and after my divorce, when I wanted nothing to do with women at all, in my opinion, what was the sense, they'll either die or screw you over. ( I got over it)

Anyway, the point is, when we are with someone, or otherwise disinclined to look for a relationship, we are comfortable with who we are.  We are more ourselves, and because we honestly don't care if we are impressive or not, we carry ourselves with more confidence.  We are simply who we are with no nervous pretension, with no care.  It is attractive and nearly magnetic to the oposite sex.

I am NOT learned in psychology, nor do I pretend to be, but this is what I honestly beleive to be true, the best way to be attractive, is be comfortable with yourself, without trying.  Think  about it like this:

A good matial artist should be able to go from position or stance and strike his oponent.  Jim Lau, Zen in the Martial Arts, pg 97.  The chapter is called "Effortless Effort", and the gist is, only when we stop thinking do we allow what we are to come forth.

I hope this makes sense.

I have to agree. From what I've seen observing other guys and myself as well is that just about all guys are either two things when actively looking for a relationship.

1. Desperate
2.Unconfident and/or shy in all they do, so they change themselves totally to try to impress the one they are after, and usually fail miserably.

and sometimes it leads to:

3. Playing hard to get thinking they can win the others heard by acting like they don't care if she doesn't like him, or ignoring her when she is just trying to be a friend.

If you are actively hunting a relationship, odds are, you won't find it. Women have some kind of desperation detector built in and they can tell what your after.

1 - Fricking killer. Desperation not good. Even if you break your duck in that state, the walk home next morning makes you wish you hadn't - desperate guys do things (or should I say also say girls) they regret.

2 - Yep, that'll blow it too. Comes back to ShadowWolf's point about being yourself and all. Got to qualify that though: just being yourself doesn't work if yourself is desperate and weedy.
 
3 - Ah, playing silly buggers as we call it over here. That one's fine right up to the point you get carried away, start thinking you're Colin Farrell, and play it so cool she gives up and gets boned by someone else.

Unless you're a player, most single guys spend most of their single-dom screwing all this stuff up.

[Colonol Dekker]

I'm not a Player, and I don't really fall into either of the stereotypes mentioned. In fact i'm pretty adamant that a lot of my friends, past and present don't either. 
 
A lot of regular internet users may, and should I get persecuted for speaking truth, so be it. But i'm not getting tarred with an inaccurate brush.
 
 
Confidence and overconfidence are two different things, deliberate considered actions and foolhardy brazen decisions. Thats a more likely fork for all blokes to be sectioned off into.
 
 
Quick point, once people stop worrying about what they think they need (successful lay, commited relationship, man points, kudos etc) and just relax into life without undue concern. That's when your confidence, performance in general and hence outward image will improve. To be positively blunt as a housebrick, and I live by this saying. . . You die if you worry, and you die he you don't. So why worry.
 
May sound harsh, but there's no point walking on eggshells if you never get anywhere.

[NGTM-1R]

Confidence is, to a degree, interchangeable with apathy.

So okay. Go out and **** up horribly three or four times. Get to know what it's like, used to it, until it doesn't scare you any more. There comes a point where you just don't care if you manage to fail again, but you still want to try.

And at that moment your crippling anxiety issues or whateverthe**** drop away. It's perverse, but as long as you're trying not to screw up, your chances of screwing up greatly increase. Stop trying. Then you actually make progress.

It worked for me.

[Scotty]

Confidence is, to a degree, interchangeable with apathy.

So okay. Go out and **** up horribly three or four times. Get to know what it's like, used to it, until it doesn't scare you any more. There comes a point where you just don't care if you manage to fail again, but you still want to try.

And at that moment your crippling anxiety issues or whateverthe**** drop away. Then you actually make progress.

It worked for me.

After nine or ten times, you lose it all over again.

[NGTM-1R]

You were still trying not to screw up.

It is better to act decisively than it is to wait two seconds devising the perfect response.

[General Battuta]

You should hang out on IRC with us, NGTM-1R!