[Blue Lion]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/22/hate.crimes/index.html

 

WASHINGTON (CNN)  -- The Senate passed groundbreaking legislation Thursday that would make it a federal crime to assault an individual because of his or her sexual orientation or gender identity.

The expanded federal hate crimes law now goes to President Obama's desk. Obama has pledged to sign the measure, which was added to a $680 billion defense authorization bill.

President George W. Bush had threatened to veto a similar measure.

The bill is named for Matthew Shepard, a gay Wyoming teenager who died after being kidnapped and severely beaten in October 1998, and James Byrd Jr., an African-American man dragged to death in Texas the same year.

"Knowing that the president will sign it, unlike his predecessor, has made all the hard work this year to pass it worthwhile," said Judy Shepard, board president of the Matthew Shepard Foundation named for her son. "Hate crimes continue to affect far too many Americans who are simply trying to live their lives honestly, and they need to know that their government will protect them from violence, and provide appropriate justice for victims and their families."

Several religious groups have expressed concern that a hate-crimes law could be used to criminalize conservative speech relating to subjects such as abortion or homosexuality.

Attorney General Eric Holder has asserted that any federal hate-crimes law would be used only to prosecute violent acts based on bias, as opposed to the prosecution of speech based on controversial racial or religious beliefs.

Holder called Thursday's 68-29 Senate vote to approve the defense spending bill that included the hate crimes measure "a milestone in helping protect Americans from the most heinous bias-motivated violence."

"The passage of this legislation will give the Justice Department and our state and local law enforcement partners the tools we need to deter and prosecute these acts of violence," he said in a statement.

Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, called the measure "our nation's first major piece of civil rights legislation for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people."

"Too many in our community have been devastated by hate violence," Solmonese said in a statement. "We now can begin the important steps to erasing hate in our country."

This month, Obama told the Human Rights Campaign, the country's largest gay rights group, that the nation still needs to make significant changes to ensure equal rights for gays and lesbians.

"Despite the progress we've made, there are still laws to change and hearts to open," he said during his address at the dinner for the Human Rights Campaign. "This fight continues now, and I'm here with the simple message: I'm here with you in that fight."

Among other things, Obama has called for the repeal of the ban on gays serving openly in the military, the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. He also has urged Congress to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and pass the Domestic Partners Benefit and Obligations Act.

The Defense of Marriage Act defines marriage, for federal purposes, as a legal union between a man and a woman. It allows states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages. The Domestic Partners Benefit and Obligations Act would extend family benefits now available to heterosexual federal employees to gay and lesbian federal workers.

More than 77,000 hate-crime incidents were reported by the FBI between 1998 and 2007, or "nearly one hate crime for every hour of every day over the span of a decade," Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee in June.

The FBI, Holder added, reported 7,624 hate-crime incidents in 2007, the most current year with complete data.

[Flipside]

Several religious groups have expressed concern that a hate-crimes law could be used to criminalize conservative speech relating to subjects such as abortion or homosexuality.

I know what they mean to say, but for some reason, the way its been said makes me laugh...

[General Battuta]

Awesome. Disadvantaged groups require special protection, or they're going to have to live in fear.

[Nuclear1]

Several religious groups have expressed concern that a hate-crimes law could be used to criminalize conservative speech relating to subjects such as abortion or homosexuality.

I know what they mean to say, but for some reason, the way its been said makes me laugh...

White Christians being persecuted...cry me a river.

[StarSlayer]

...and drown in it

[General Battuta]

Discrimination against Christians, males, or White individuals could become a problem in society in the future. At the moment, however, there's no real scientific evidence for it.

So, yeah, don't think they have much to worry about.

[Blue Lion]

I'll say it now to save some trouble. (even though it won't)

Beating up a guy who is black/white/gay/whatever = assault

Beating up a guy BECAUSE he is black/white/gay/whatever = assault + hate crime

[Nuclear1]

Not saying it's right to discrimate against anyone, but white Christians *****ing because they can't spew factually unbased hate-filled rhetoric from the pulpit anymore just doesn't generate any sympathy from me.

[iamzack]

The thing is that they can keep spewing as much hate as they want. They're *****ing about stuff that isn't even real. They're all delusional.

[Flipside]

Thing is, and in fairness, there does need to be care taken, some hate crimes are obvious, such as the ones given, others are more subtle, and some seem like hate crimes but are not, in my opinion.

As an example, I consider a priest telling his congregation that Homosexuals should be stoned as a Hate Crime, even though it says so in the Bible, because he is inciting violence against Homosexuals, however, I consider a priest saying 'I believe that Abortion is Murder', even though the Bible doesn't even mention abortion, is not a hate crime, however, encouraging the flock to call women who have had abortion murderers, is a hate crime, it might not be a physical attack but it is an attack deliberately designed to harm both psychologically  and socially.

[Nuclear1]

As an example, I consider a priest telling his congregation that Homosexuals should be stoned as a Hate Crime, even though it says so in the Bible, because he is inciting violence against Homosexuals, however, I consider a priest saying 'I believe that Abortion is Murder', even though the Bible doesn't even mention abortion, is not a hate crime

Until it turns into this...

People are stupid.  People who are told that God believes something are not only stupid, but extremely dangerous--they feel like if they don't do something about it, God willne displeased with them/America/mankind.  Thus Army of God whackjobs kill abortion doctors, California votes for Prop 8, and Westboro has free reign to call dead soldiers faggots.

[Scotty]

The thing is that they can keep spewing as much hate as they want. They're *****ing about stuff that isn't even real. They're all delusional.

Please don't make blanket statements like this.  I'm not quite sure if you were talking about just the people that spew idiotic stuff, or the entirety of white Christians.  I like to think that I'm not delusional, and my pastor doesn't even talk about politics or race or anything, in any context.  (If it was just the idiots, carry on.)

Anyway, back on topic:  I'm not quite sure what they mean by "criminalize," since saying something agasint someone or somegroup isn't a crime, at least as far a I know.

However, this caught my eye:

"Too many in our community have been devastated by hate violence," Solmonese said in a statement. "We now can begin the important steps to erasing hate in our country."

And this is going to stop that?  If they didn't go to jail for it already, this isn't going to help, and if they have, going back either won't be a problem or they've stopped already.  This bill doesn't really do anything.

People are stupid.  People who are told that God believes something are not only stupid, but extremely dangerous

I believe that God thinks some things are wrong, does that make me extremely dangerous?  Then again, it doesn't really matter what I think God believes, since I'm not God, and am not going to take it upon myself to do His work in His stead.  That would be... questionable, at the very least.  People who are told that God believes something are being preached to, not absorbing that though for their own.  Assuming that people who hear something automatically think it to be true is almost as stupid as some people are.

[Ioustinos]

Is there something I'm missing?

The legislation only makes assaulting based on sexual orientation a crime.  Why are people afraid that they won't be able to speak against homosexuality?

[Blue Lion]

And this is going to stop that?  If they didn't go to jail for it already, this isn't going to help, and if they have, going back either won't be a problem or they've stopped already.  This bill doesn't really do anything.

The addition of federal charges may help a smidge. I'm gonna guess white on black crime went down a bit when it wasn't so fashionable anymore.

[Blue Lion]

Is there something I'm missing?

The legislation only makes assaulting based on sexual orientation a crime.  Why are people afraid that they won't be able to speak against homosexuality?

Because they're afraid to say what they really mean: "If we act like it's bad to hurt them, people might actually respect them."

[Polpolion]

I'll say it now to save some trouble. (even though it won't)

Beating up a guy who is black/white/gay/whatever = assault

Beating up a guy BECAUSE he is black/white/gay/whatever = assault + hate crime

Beating up a guy is assault PERIOD.

Like it or not, hating someone for an irrational reason shouldn't be any more of a crime than not liking ice cream. People can do what they want as long as it's not inconveniencing other people. I'm sure plenty of people hate me, but I don't care, and I won't until they do something to me because of that hate. But it's not the hate that will make me sad, it's what they did as a result of that hate.

When you beat a guy up because of his race, for example, hate is the cause of the crime. Hate is the cause. In a different situation, someone might beat up a guy because he's mugging him and he needs money. Needing money caused him to beat up the guy. Needing money isn't a crime. Causes of crimes CANNOT be crimes themselves.

Also, just for clarification, what I said isn't what I think US law is, it's what I think it should be. I know what you said probably is in fact what the current actual law is, but myeh. Ignore my post if you think that it's stupid. EDIT: Or no, better yet, tell me why it's stupid.

[Blue Lion]

Beating up a guy is assault PERIOD.

Like it or not, hating someone for an irrational reason shouldn't be any more of a crime than not liking ice cream. People can do what they want as long as it's not inconveniencing other people. I'm sure plenty of people hate me, but I don't care, and I won't until they do something to me because of that hate. But it's not the hate that will make me sad, it's what they did as a result of that hate.

When you beat a guy up because of his race, for example, hate is the cause of the crime. Hate is the cause. In a different situation, someone might beat up a guy because he's mugging him and he needs money. Needing money caused him to beat up the guy. Needing money isn't a crime. Causes of crimes CANNOT be crimes themselves.

Also, just for clarification, what I said isn't what I think US law is, it's what I think it should be. I know what you said probably is in fact what the current actual law is, but myeh. Ignore my post if you think that it's stupid. EDIT: Or no, better yet, tell me why it's stupid.

Well that's great. Because hating someone isn't a crime. You can (even though you don't) hate any people all you want.

Hate the Jews? Great, free country. Blacks? Whatever. Gays? Get in line.

Go out and beat some up because of it? Helloooo extra sentencing.

People get different charges and sentences for murder all the time based on intent. I mean you killed someone, why shouldn't matter, right? But it does, and no one bats an eye at that. People getting longer prison sentences for some murders isn't an issue, why should people getting longer prison time for some assaults?

[Flipside]

Thing is, for many of the extreme groups, if you take away the ability to de-humanise their target, to make their lives seem worth somehow less than other peoples', you take away their biggest weapon, you don't get that gestalt of social acceptability that allows the hatred to continue. 'Everyone else does it' is probably the most common denial of responsibility in the world.

[Scotty]

Differences in murder sentences are based on "premeditated" or planned (includes when doing something else that could lead to intentional murder, such as hijacking something), and spur-of-the-moment stuff.  NOT on what the motivations or intent were.  Manslaughter is when killing was not intended.  There is absolutely no change in sentence based on WHY someone killed someone else.

[Bobboau]

why was this attached to a defense bill?