Author Topic: Let me............... Tel-e-port you!  (Read 36495 times)

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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Quote
Why would we need to go biosphere on a planetary colony? We'd be exploiting the environment - if you assume we can magic wand the distance issue away (eg. we get a wormhole generator) then we're going to look for planets that are at least vaguely earthlike. Even if we don't get an earthlike planet, there'll be something there we can exploit, even if it's just drawing oxygen out of the rocks themselves (Of course, there'd probably be a lot more we could do - any martian colonies (and, following recent evidence, maybe lunar colonies as well) would be able to optain potentially huge amounts of water locally.

Sure, but I'm afraid we can't magic wand the distance away, can we?

Look at early efforts to colonize the Americas. That's what you'll see en masse in colonization. It will be a long, hard road before it goes right.

You guys are arguing two different things. First you say colonization is impossible because we pathetic humans need such a precise environment to survive in and all attempts to replicate that environment have failed. Now you're saying it's a distance issue. Sure, distance is an issue. My point is that if distance is the big problem, then we've got a much smaller range of planets we can potentially colonize - Mars, Venus, the moon, maybe a few of the jovian/saturnian moons - but there're no massive barriers to surviving on those planets - for at least a few years - with current or near future technologies - they're just not economically viable. If distance somehow ceased to be an issue through FTL, we'd go looking for a better, more earthlike colony world and it'd become easier to do. The only barrier to colonies offworld is economics.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Bodysnatcher fungus wins.
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Offline BloodEagle

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Ex-****ing-actly. :wtf: Our sample size is one measly planet. We have no idea what's out there.

The Truth is out there, silly.  :P

Hurr? Transhumanism means unlimited freedom to adapt purely on the basis of conscious planning, instead of the half-assed consciousness we have right now.


I am actually a big advocate for Transhumanism as well, but it still does have limitations. If we were able to upload our consciousness into a computer system of some sort, that system also needs to operate within a rather tempremental environmental limitations. Even though the limits are relaxed, they still do exist and we shouldn't forget that. We would still need some sort of life support to live on the moon, we would still need to develop some sort of FTL-ish space propulsion system to get to other stars in a reasonable amount of time.

I'm all for aiding the body with implantations (provided they work well and without side-effects), but completely replacing it? No. Just, no.  :no:

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
We would still need some sort of life support to live on the moon, we would still need to develop some sort of FTL-ish space propulsion system to get to other stars in a reasonable amount of time.

Um, why? Just dial down your clock speed. Or shut off your boredom.

I'm all for aiding the body with implantations (provided they work well and without side-effects), but completely replacing it? No. Just, no.  :no:

The kneejerk fear of the dualist!  :p

The fact is that your body gets replaced all the time anyway. The matter that makes up precious ol' You cycles all the time. All that's preserved is the pattern of information.

 

Offline The E

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Recommended reading:

Accelerando
Glasshouse
Altered Carbon

And, for the space travel part:

Saturn's Children
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
I'm all for aiding the body with implantations (provided they work well and without side-effects), but completely replacing it? No. Just, no.  :no:

The kneejerk fear of the dualist!  :p

The fact is that your body gets replaced all the time anyway. The matter that makes up precious ol' You cycles all the time. All that's preserved is the pattern of information.
Yeah, but at least the replacement material is just as warm and squishy as the original.  And I want to be able to scratch my own biological ass in Alpha Centauri, thank you very much. :p

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
I'm Sorry Battuta

But Humans are SUPERIOR!

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Hurr? Transhumanism means unlimited freedom to adapt purely on the basis of conscious planning, instead of the half-assed consciousness we have right now.

Anything which makes us less squishy lessens our need to develop or adapt, and thus I cannot support it. :P
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Our current habit of wrapping ourselves in life support, implanting ourselves with devices to keep us living, wearing glasses, modifying our diets, culturing livestock and food products, and coddling the ill is 'making us less squishy' on a grand scale. We don't need to be forced to adapt any more. We have this mechanism called cognition that lets us do it on our own!

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Quote
Um, why? Just dial down your clock speed. Or shut off your boredom.


It isn't just a problem of that, it would cause you to fall behind everyone else by a few thousand years. If we were to have colonies in other star systems, rapid communication becomes that much more important.

Quote
I'm all for aiding the body with implantations (provided they work well and without side-effects), but completely replacing it? No. Just, no.

Your brain is eventually going to fail when it gets old, one of the symptoms of this is dimentia, occasionally along with alzheimers, etc. What do you do about that? What about people like Steven Hawking?
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Your brain generally lasts as long as the rest of your body, and as it decays so does the brain. We're not talking about something that should suffer programmed cell death or anything Kosh. As long as the rest of your body continues to function well and you're not unfortunate in the genetic lottery, your brain can keep soldiering on forever.
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Offline The E

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Quote
Um, why? Just dial down your clock speed. Or shut off your boredom.
It isn't just a problem of that, it would cause you to fall behind everyone else by a few thousand years. If we were to have colonies in other star systems, rapid communication becomes that much more important.

Actually, no. Unless you can find a way around c, bandwidth between any interstellar colony and Earth will be severely limited.

Quote
Quote
I'm all for aiding the body with implantations (provided they work well and without side-effects), but completely replacing it? No. Just, no.

Your brain is eventually going to fail when it gets old, one of the symptoms of this is dimentia, occasionally along with alzheimers, etc. What do you do about that? What about people like Steven Hawking?

You really need to read up on transhumanism. If we can find solutions for the problems posed by these degenerative diseases (including old age), we will have to see how well a brain ages.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
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Offline castor

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
As long as the rest of your body continues to function well and you're not unfortunate in the genetic lottery, your brain can keep soldiering on forever.
That is just a hypothesis though, we can't know for sure. The brain is constantly evolving.. can that process be sustained succesfully for extended periods? Maybe in mere thousand years it will entangle itself into a nonsolvable puzzle - and just freeze.

 

Offline The E

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
That is just a hypothesis though, we can't know for sure. The brain is constantly evolving.. can that process be sustained succesfully for extended periods? Maybe in mere thousand years it will entangle itself into a nonsolvable puzzle - and just freeze.

Let's find a cure for old age and it's associated failure modes and find out. Or better yet, find a method for uploading minds....
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
You guys are arguing two different things. First you say colonization is impossible because we pathetic humans need such a precise environment to survive in and all attempts to replicate that environment have failed. Now you're saying it's a distance issue. Sure, distance is an issue. My point is that if distance is the big problem, then we've got a much smaller range of planets we can potentially colonize - Mars, Venus, the moon, maybe a few of the jovian/saturnian moons - but there're no massive barriers to surviving on those planets - for at least a few years - with current or near future technologies - they're just not economically viable. If distance somehow ceased to be an issue through FTL, we'd go looking for a better, more earthlike colony world and it'd become easier to do. The only barrier to colonies offworld is economics.
In the article, it says that colonization is practically impossible because of the environmental requirements, distance, and economics in real life conditions. I take it that is the misunderstanding?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
I concur.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Transhumanism is a big load of monkey poo.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Transhumanism is a big load of monkey poo.


Fine, we'll make sure you don't get any. :p
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Monkey poo? ;7
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: The Earth is uninhabitable
Transhumanism is a big load of monkey poo.


Fine, we'll make sure you don't get any. :p

Quite right, you don't have to get any again.

Though, again, you're demonstrably wrong, since you're surrounded by transhumans.