Author Topic: Lucifers shields  (Read 33245 times)

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Offline Droid803

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So...while being attacked by the Sathanas, they would develop a way to collapse the node which wouldn't even stop it? That's freaking smart....NOT.

What do you mean? They tried to seal off the Draconis-nebula node before the first Sath would've arrived. But the destruction of the Knossos wasn't enough.

It's a tremendous waste of resources to attempt to seal the node between the arrival of the first Sathanas and the discovery of the Second. The GTVA had no reason to believe that there were more, after all, there was only one SD Lucifer. Why would any sane person collapse that node after the first Sath went through it. It's easy to see in hindsight, but if you were there at that moment, with a Juggernaut at your door (or it being dead), you have NO REASON to collapse that node anymore.

What people try to do change base on situation... Furthermore, the GTVA didn't come up with destoyers-loaded-with-mesons until well into the Capella invasion. They definitely would not have had the means to collapse the node when the 1st sath was still active, and after it's destruction, there is no longer a need (or so they rightly think)!
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Offline TrashMan

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It really doesn't make any sense to invest that much time and $$$ into the Colossuss if it's incapable of defeating the Lucifer.

Command is all kinds of stupid, but not even it would be THAT stupid.
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Offline headdie

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they did ask a Hecate and 10,000 people to sit in front of the sath's main guns while you bomb the proverbial out of the main guns and we all know how that ends
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Offline NGTM-1R

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With an escape, since that's clearly what the mission is FREDded for and the fact it doesn't is a problem with your computer and the way damage is applied?
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Offline MatthTheGeek

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I've seen several time the Hecate being destroyed before escaping. Not always, but it happens.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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and the fact it doesn't is a problem with your computer and the way damage is applied?
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

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Offline TrashMan

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True. Teh hecate is supposed to turn invulnerable one the HP reach 1%, but due to the way damage is applied, it can "jump" over 1 straight to 0.

Still, it doesn't make command much smarter. It doesn't really slow the Sath at all. That part of the mission was simply badly done.  Attacking the Sath from the rear and targeting it's engine would do more to slow it down. Heck, getting it to turn to fact you would slow it down and buy some time.
But what was done in that mission? No, that won't buy you ANYTHING.
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I have to agree with TrashMan, command ordered the Phoenicia to remain at its position, which would be completely pointless.
Btw, iirc the Phoenicia is upposed to turn invincible at 3%, not 1%. :>
Still the same problem though. ;)

 

Offline IronForge

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Quote
It's a tremendous waste of resources to attempt to seal the node between the arrival of the first Sathanas and the discovery of the Second. The GTVA had no reason to believe that there were more, after all, there was only one SD Lucifer. Why would any sane person collapse that node after the first Sath went through it. It's easy to see in hindsight, but if you were there at that moment, with a Juggernaut at your door (or it being dead), you have NO REASON to collapse that node anymore.

What people try to do change base on situation... Furthermore, the GTVA didn't come up with destoyers-loaded-with-mesons until well into the Capella invasion. They definitely would not have had the means to collapse the node when the 1st sath was still active, and after it's destruction, there is no longer a need (or so they rightly think)!

Allright actually, they did know the big shivian armada was coming, their scout gave them intel. Plus, do you really think the shivians would be so stupid to not advance their technology by A LOT before coming back?
Well maybe its just me, because I follow the theory that shivians are fully conceous beings just like terrans and vasudians and their seemingly lack of tactics (they do show SOME) is just due to overconfidence. Like when I am in an invulnerable wing of 12 fighters I just charge for the caps and throw everything while my own caps provide covering fire. That my friends is why I love playing in easy mode.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Plus, do you really think the shivians would be so stupid to not advance their technology by A LOT before coming back?
Hum. First : they didn't choose to come back at this exact time, they were lured by the NTF.
Second : I think that equipping all their ships with beam and flak weaponry is a sufficient technology advance. Remember all their ships had blobs just like ours back in FS1.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Plus, do you really think the shivians would be so stupid to not advance their technology by A LOT before coming back?
Hum. First : they didn't choose to come back at this exact time, they were lured by the NTF.
Second : I think that equipping all their ships with beam and flak weaponry is a sufficient technology advance. Remember all their ships had blobs just like ours back in FS1.

True, that. :D

No offense to SF-Junky (iirc he's the one responsible for it), but "what if" with the FS1-era Shivans-with-beams is ...  :ick: Then again, I also liked the Lucifer better with the slow-moving shots. I once compared replacing them with beams to watching the bullet-time scenes in The Matrix at  10x speed.

 
Plus, do you really think the shivians would be so stupid to not advance their technology by A LOT before coming back?
Hum. First : they didn't choose to come back at this exact time, they were lured by the NTF.
Second : I think that equipping all their ships with beam and flak weaponry is a sufficient technology advance. Remember all their ships had blobs just like ours back in FS1.
I always thought that it was retconned with FS2: Shivans always had beams and flaks, there is nothing to see here, move on. :>
It's never explecitly stated, but a whole lot of things won't make sense otherwise.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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 :wtf: I don't remember anything that could let us think that. Explain.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Dragon

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I once compared replacing them with beams to watching the bullet-time scenes in The Matrix at  10x speed.
Agreed, I better liked slow moving SSLs.
They were unique, only Lucifer ever had such type of weaponay and it's apperance on battlefield always meant that the battle in question is doomed.
Beams, on the other hand, are dirt common in FS2 era and are far from half as menacing as SSLs and firing of a beam cannon rarely meant that everything is lost.
Comparision to speeding up bullet time is perfectly valid, there's also the fact that while beam has it chargeup sequence, SSLs always come without warning.

 

Offline TrashMan

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There's also the dread of watching that slow shot relentlesly moving towards your destroyer...and you are powerless.
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Offline Dragon

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I agree in 100%, this one I forgot to list, but it's one of the factors that make standard SSLs better than beam ones.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Allright actually, they did know the big shivian armada was coming, their scout gave them intel.

Ahahahaha BULLCRAP.

The worst thing Kappa 3 could have encountered was the Sath. It wasn't until Into The Lion's Den they became even vaguely aware of Shivan numbers.
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Offline Snail

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Plus, do you really think the shivians would be so stupid to not advance their technology by A LOT before coming back?
Hum. First : they didn't choose to come back at this exact time, they were lured by the NTF.
Second : I think that equipping all their ships with beam and flak weaponry is a sufficient technology advance. Remember all their ships had blobs just like ours back in FS1.
I always thought that it was retconned with FS2: Shivans always had beams and flaks, there is nothing to see here, move on. :>
It's never explecitly stated, but a whole lot of things won't make sense otherwise.
I personally hate any form of retcon with a seething passion.

Seriously, treat FreeSpace canon with some respect. Compare the FSPort's loving care and attention to every damned detail and discrepancy to a certain member's "nothing in FS1 is canon, ignore it completely" approach. :doubt:

 

Offline Mongoose

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I once compared replacing them with beams to watching the bullet-time scenes in The Matrix at  10x speed.
Agreed, I better liked slow moving SSLs.
They were unique, only Lucifer ever had such type of weaponay and it's apperance on battlefield always meant that the battle in question is doomed.
Beams, on the other hand, are dirt common in FS2 era and are far from half as menacing as SSLs and firing of a beam cannon rarely meant that everything is lost.
Comparision to speeding up bullet time is perfectly valid, there's also the fact that while beam has it chargeup sequence, SSLs always come without warning.
That's all well and good, but :v: certainly would have equipped the Lucifer in FS1 with proper beam cannons if they had them working in the engine then. :p

 
:wtf: I don't remember anything that could let us think that. Explain.
Replay a Lion at the door. It is said there that Shivans have  a new cruiser, a new fighter class, but NEVER that they have new weapons (for example at the cain there).
In fact, at no place in the campaign is it ever said that the Shivans have a new weaponry like beam cannons or flak guns. Well for flak guns you can say they appear only on new ships (Moloch/Sath/Ravana), but the sudden appearance of beam cannons on demons, cains, lilith? Doesn't get mentioned at all.

And to quote from "The Great Hunt":
Quote
With the technology they had thirty years ago it's a mircale we won the great war.
In FS1 they didn't have different weaponry than the Terrans and Vasudans, only at the first few missions shields were new. Only the Lucifer was special.

And last but not least it's hard to believe the Shivans had no technological advancement in 8000 years, but suddenly a lot of it within 30 years.
Though this can be explained in other ways (for example the Shivans of FS1 and FS2 are different Shivans).