[BloodEagle]

*MEGA-SNIP*

"What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[Spicious]

Ignoring perfectly-justified actions that don't affect me directly seems like a safe policy.

If you see actions as justified everyone else must?

[Dark RevenantX]

I don't see the point of the argument at this point.  MicroSoft has made its business decision and it will suffer the consequences, whatever they'll be.  It's probably going to be exactly the same as it always is; a resurgence of even bigger and better piracy.

[Mongoose]

Ignoring perfectly-justified actions that don't affect me directly seems like a safe policy.

If you see actions as justified everyone else must?

If A is forbidden in writing with consequence B, and a user agrees to said writing, then commits A and suffers consequence B, the user has no recourse to complain about consequence B.  This isn't about how any of us see it; it's a simple matter of consequences.

[TESLA]

*MEGA-SNIP*

"What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Your opinion really matters to me.

[BloodEagle]

*MEGA-SNIP*

"What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Your opinion really matters to me.

My life has meaning, now! HUZZAH! 

[Scotty]

Ironic sarcasm detected.  Levels rising to dangerous concentrations.  Flash-point imminent.

[Flaser]

Ignoring perfectly-justified actions that don't affect me directly seems like a safe policy.

If you see actions as justified everyone else must?

If A is forbidden in writing with consequence B, and a user agrees to said writing, then commits A and suffers consequence B, the user has no recourse to complain about consequence B.  This isn't about how any of us see it; it's a simple matter of consequences.

Sorry, but I call bull****.

The terms of this so called "service" are mandatory enforced by a single party and are *non*-negotiable. Furthermore they have pretty much monopoly on the market.

What I dispute is not the legality but the morality of the whole affair. Just because the law allows a company to act in a way doesn't make it moral too. The whole idea of "idea ownership" and "lincenses" simply doesn't cut it with me. I don't dispute the right of a creator to profit from their creation, but subverting this idea and using it to create artificial monopolies and artificial scarcity by a company was never in the initial deal.

How does this relate to a "service" by a company? Said service is a de-facto monopoly and I wonder why antitrust lawsuit was never sacked on them. It's not the terms that infuriate me, but the fact that I'm told that I'm the one "opting" for it...
...there is no damn opting! It's the only choice, the platform and the network are closed and the owner could enforce whatever terms they wished. The fact that said terms go against fair use and classical ownership rights pertaining to physical objects is just icing on the cake.

[Mongoose]

Maybe we're looking at this from completely different angles, but I don't even see how the term "monopoly" applies to this particular situation.  Microsoft makes the Xbox 360 console specifically to work with content (i.e. games) created for the 360, just as every gaming console from the NES onwards has only worked by default with content meant specifically for it.  Xbox Live is the service provided by Microsoft for its own specific hardware, just as the DS and Wii's matchmaking services are provided by Nintendo and Home (ha) is provided by Sony.  It's literally part and parcel of the whole experience...if you buy an Xbox, you're also buying Live (or at least the free level of it).  And no secret is made of that; in fact, it's one of the console's selling points.  As such, Microsoft has the right legally, and I would suggest morally, to establish the terms and conditions for using Live.  If all you were concerned about when purchasing a piece of gaming hardware was buying a completely-open system, you wouldn't be buying a console in the first place.  From where I'm sitting, complaining about Xboxes having only Live available as a networking option by default is just like complaining about only being able to get Windows patches from Microsoft Update.

[Dark RevenantX]

The difference is you can still use your computer and use a different updater.  Without Live, it's very tough to find an alternative, if it's even possible.  Otherwise, you have a nearly useless hunk of plastic and silicon.

[Mongoose]

The difference is you can still use your computer and use a different updater.  Without Live, it's very tough to find an alternative, if it's even possible.  Otherwise, you have a nearly useless hunk of plastic and silicon.

Again, this thing doesn't nerf the physical console itself, just its connection to Live.  You can still play games offline to your heart's content on it.

[General Battuta]

Exactly. You're not buying a gaming PC here, you're buying a console.

[Dark RevenantX]

The difference is you can still use your computer and use a different updater.  Without Live, it's very tough to find an alternative, if it's even possible.  Otherwise, you have a nearly useless hunk of plastic and silicon.

Again, this thing doesn't nerf the physical console itself, just its connection to Live.  You can still play games offline to your heart's content on it.

For those who enjoy online games, this basically kills the appeal of the console.

[General Battuta]

Well, um, exactly? 

If someone's cheating in a PC game, you ban them from your server. Why should Live be different?

[Mongoose]

For those who enjoy online games, this basically kills the appeal of the console.

If you can't take pleasure in singleplayer games as well, I don't consider you much of a gamer to begin with.

[Dark RevenantX]

 

For those who enjoy online games, this basically kills the appeal of the console.

If you can't take pleasure in singleplayer games as well, I don't consider you much of a gamer to begin with.

What the hell would one be doing with games like Call of Duty (4) (Modern Warfare) (2), Halo (2) (3), etc. if the multiplayer service was removed?
Anyway, I'm not an XBOX owner, but virtually all of my friends are.

[General Battuta]

If you want to play these games online, and if you're interested in the multiplayer service, then why the hell are you modding your console against the TOS?

[NGTM-1R]

What the hell would one be doing with games like Call of Duty (4) (Modern Warfare) (2), Halo (2) (3), etc. if the multiplayer service was removed?
Anyway, I'm not an XBOX owner, but virtually all of my friends are.

In the case of all but MW2, playing the rather good singleplayer campaign.

[Mongoose]

If you want to play these games online, and if you're interested in the multiplayer service, then why the hell are you modding your console against the TOS?

Seriously.  The simple solution to all of this is to just not do it.  Or, if you're going to do it, buy a spare Xbox and keep it clean for multiplayer purposes.

[Woolie Wool]

Remember there are already companies out there that hate microsoft.  I could see a move by Google or Mozilla or Sun to put up a network just to pull users over away from MSN or IE, or Office.

Google is as bad as Microsoft, maybe worse. They have a log of every single search you have ever made, what you searched for, and when you searched. And that's only the tip of the iceberg.

Also Sun is already pulling users away from Office. They have a product called OpenOffice and it rocks. I have never seen a *.doc file that I couldn't open.