[StarSlayer]

You folks are travelling a bit far from the point.  The original issue was that Japan seems to not acknowledge thier part in the Second World War.  Specifically their actions in China, Korea, etc.  Debating who shares the national quilt in Japan is a bit futile at this point, most of the decision makers at the time are probably dead by now.  Suffice to say Imperial Japan committed numerous large scale atrocities upon the other Asian populations they conquered, in much the same way as the Reich met out genocide on the Slavs.  While I'm not a big fan of the father's sins are transfered to the children concept, for example my ancestors emigrated to the States after the Civil War therefore I have no personal  guilt over slavery, I know what occurred in the pre-Civil War America.  Knowledge of history makes us better prepared to not repeat past mistakes.  Refusing to acknowledge it paves the way for it occurring again.

Take for example American Indians.  American school systems pretty much glaze over the true implications of "Manifest Destiny."  If the actual history of the European Settler/American Indian relations was common knowledge the US Government's current exploitive policies towards the tribes probably would be deemed unacceptable to the public.  Since it is not, the Fed gets to shaft the Reservations for their natural resources and few people know it.  History is important, ignoring it is dangerous especially at a national level.

[Flipside]

Agreed, the matter should not be forgotten, but it also should not be allowed to hold either side back from forming closer ties, an apology from a friend is far easier to obtain than an apology from someone who doesn't trust you.

[Sushi]

Debating who shares the national quilt in Japan

You mean this?



(Sorry, couldn't resist).

[StarSlayer]

Debating who shares the national quilt in Japan

You mean this?



(Sorry, couldn't resist).

The entire Sengoku period was brought about due to confrontation over ownership of the "The Quilt" I thought that was common knowledge.

[Flipside]

They did a version later with numbers, the Sodoku period....

[TESLA]

ok, this one is totally overblown, not gonna even try to defend it.

agreed. Its just simple common diplomatic courtesy.

[BloodEagle]

Wow, nice thread explosion.

1) I would like to congratulate everyone who's posted in this thread. To take Obama bowing and getting the point to where it is is nothing short of incredible.

2)

Red text == BloodEagle; //Obvious

My response to a previous post higher up on the page:

Well racism is everywhere and there is more here than many might think. Japan is racist as well. What place isn't? As long as there are physical and personal differences, there will always be discrimination. Anyone thinking it can be changed completely is not living in reality.

Agreed.

I think USA has a habit of thinking all other countries are inferior, and that upsets me because no country is the best in every way and there are different areas of being the best. Maybe that is one reason many countries don't like USA. Because they feel that USA thinks of them as inferior. Also because USA likes to fight wars and often joins wars apparently because it likes to fight any country or group that doesn't agree with pure democracy and capitalism. Like they like to go over there and kill people who are communists and force its capitalistic and cultural views on others, which is wrong. It would explain one reason why USA goes overboard in killing the other side in wars, but I guess many countries also try to force their culture on others. It happened many times in the past and the French did it too.

Wait. What? Where did this come from?

Following WWII (and in some cases before it), popular opinion usually and greatly dissented from the government's and military's actions regarding wars and "police actions".  It isn't fair to paint every citizen as a blood-thirsty lunatic, and it comes off as being very insulting.

In WWII, USA killed many Japanese and their civilians too. So maybe Japan doesn't need to apologize since they lost much more and suffered too much in the past, more than USA, including innocents civvies. Pearl Harbor seemed like an attack towards USA military only and little to no callatoral damage. Also, Japan has helped USA with certain technology and imports for a while now and actions speak louder than words. Time to move on.

What. The. Hell. Seriously. I mean, damn. There's so much wrong with that frame of mind, that I can't even begin to put it into clear words.

And, honestly, if you can't see the problem with that, you never will. No matter what I or anyone else writes about it.

I heard Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because Japan was afraid of no longer being able to get oil from USA. Tell me if I'm wrong though. --You're wrong, mostly.-- Maybe Japan felt it had to attack to get oil and survive, because if it didn't, maybe they would run out of oil. --Wanna guess why they were running out of oil? I'll give you a hint, it involved China.-- Also, maybe Japan assumed that the reason the US fleet was garrisoned near Hawaii was because they were planning to attack Japan and Japan attacked first before USA had a chance to start an attack. --The fleet was garrisoned at Pearl Harbor because, within two weeks (I believe), they were expecting Japan to assualt Wake Island (which was within flight distance of Hawaii) with the fleet that they'd been building up.-- You have to put yourselves in that situation to understand. If USA was in that situation, would they not do the same out of fear of running out of resources or being attacked first? --Stealing is wrong. Preemptively (before a formal declaration is made) attacking a nation because you think that they might attack you sometime in the future is very wrong.-- It was probably why they were invading other countries, though it wasn't right. --Which has absolutely nothing to do with the war crimes commited.--

Maybe it was possible that Japan had a good reason to attack, and the US goverment wanted America to think that it was an unprovoked attack when the real reasons for Japan attacking were classified by the US government. Who knows? If the US did anything wrong and started a war from a misunderstanding, then of course they would not admit it to the public and they would say that the other side started it. Did Japan start it or was that falsified for US propaganda and misleading the public? Just like the theory on 911 being staged by the Bush admin in order to make it look like terrorists attacked (red flag op) so the admin could gain public support and make it look like the reason USA invaded Iraq was to protect USA, but it might have been all about oil and 911 could have been a very convincing and ingenious cover up.

No. Seriously, don't go there.

Often in war when countries fight each other, I see it as neither side being the good guys or bad guys; just sides that disagree with each other and fight each other as a result, or because they feel they have to in order to survive and to get resources, and also from misunderstandings of cultural differences. Of course Nazi Germany is an exception and they are bad. But many assume Germans in general are nazis--[CITATION FREAKING NEEDED]-- when that is not true, just like many people think all muslims and Arabs are terrorists when that is silly. I could make fun of USA's fear of terrorists and joke by saying that people here think "oh no, a terrorist. I'm so scared, etc ect".

3)

They did a version later with numbers, the Sodoku period....

 

[mxlm]

And 'merkins' sound like some kind of pickle.

Not exactly. Quoth the wiki, A merkin (first use 1617)[1] is a pubic wig, originally worn by prostitutes after shaving their genitalia.

[Mongoose]

I don't agree in full with him, but I think WeatherOp had a good point back on the first page of this.  Nuclear1, I'm not entirely sure why you made this thread in the first place; you had to know that it'd wind up as a cluster**** of some sort within a page or two.  You decry the viewpoint you were skewering in your original post as being laughably idiotic, and rightly so, so why even do it the dignity of acknowledging it?  The primary reason people spew crap like this is because they want recognition, either positive or negative, for their own fulfillment.  So how do you combat that?  Don't respond to it, don't notice it, don't even give it the time of day.  Just let it languish away, completely ignored.

[Scotty]

And 'merkins' sound like some kind of pickle.

Not exactly. Quoth the wiki, A merkin (first use 1617)[1] is a pubic wig, originally worn by prostitutes after shaving their genitalia.

 

 

Opinion on the matter at hand:  It was 50 years ago.  Get the hell over it.  EVERYONE.  Just make the damn apology or (alternately) shut up about getting one.

[iamzack]

Only 50 years => Survivors are still alive.

[Scotty]

Only 50 years => Survivors are still alive.

Doesn't really change my point.

[iamzack]

That's an odd position. Survivors of atrocities like the ones committed by Germany and Japan (and to a somewhat lesser extent, the US) should just "get the hell over it"?

[Scotty]

Yes.  The people who committed said atrocities were caught, tried, and most likely executed, or else they won.  Guess which actually happened in this case.

[iamzack]

Depends who you're talking about. Japanese-Americans lost everything and were then given next to nothing for example.

[General Battuta]

The people who committed genocide against the Native Americans were never brought to justice.

[High Max]

.

[Dark RevenantX]

Looks like Civ Leader George Washington needs to push the turn button a few more times so that the -1 modifier to Civ Leader Tokugawa's relations, "You nuked us!!!", can go away.

[Mars]

I don't agree in full with him, but I think WeatherOp had a good point back on the first page of this.  Nuclear1, I'm not entirely sure why you made this thread in the first place; you had to know that it'd wind up as a cluster**** of some sort within a page or two.  You decry the viewpoint you were skewering in your original post as being laughably idiotic, and rightly so, so why even do it the dignity of acknowledging it?  The primary reason people spew crap like this is because they want recognition, either positive or negative, for their own fulfillment.  So how do you combat that?  Don't respond to it, don't notice it, don't even give it the time of day.  Just let it languish away, completely ignored.

This is my drunken opinion, but dosn't every thread here? If only because we all resort to personal attacks?

[Stormkeeper]

... So this went from a sacarstic interpretation of Obama bowing in greeting, to a totally fire up argument about America's foreign relations?