Author Topic: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer  (Read 37611 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dilmah G

  • Failed juggling
  • 211
  • Do try it.
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Yeah, I'm sure after all is said and done in the world of the UEF, they'll create a single body governing Officer and Enlisted Psychology stance, after all, they're probably going to notice what three differing stances is doing. TBH, I wasn't really thinking about the UEF intricately on the issue of the discipline we've been debating, more no discipline v. discipline. Though I'm going right off the bat that UEF Military Discipline is lacking in the WiH timeline, since Laporte refers to Simms as Simms, rather than Ma'am, disregarding the fact Simms outranks her, in fact, I don't think Sir/Ma'am is used that much in WiH. (In my memory, I've only played most missions around 5 times, and most of them have undergone a fair bit of revision.)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 11:26:20 pm by Dilmah G »

 

Offline Woolie Wool

  • 211
  • Fire main batteries
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
With regards to "pissed off pilots", I think someone who has been whipped into a vengeful rage wouldn't be able to even get into his fighter at all. They're not like cars; you can't just jump into a starfighter and fly away (consider the long and detailed set of checks and procedures undertaken before launching a real-life aircraft; a spacecraft would be even more complex). The crewmen and officers aboard ships live in very close proximity and become extremely familiar with one another; everyone will know if someone seems a little "off". Then that someone will be grounded until the brass is 110% sure the problem is corrected. Also, Command has demonstrated the ability to remotely lock, unlock, arm, and disarm pilots' weapons remotely. By the time your (carefully vetted and psychologically tested) pilot somehow got to the point of committing mass murder because Command punished him for fraternizing with a superior, Command would be able to stop his killing spree with the push of a button.

The risk (which is smaller than NGTM-1R thinks) does not justify lax discipline and officers having extremely unprofessional relationships with each other. This sort of behavior threatens the integrity and loyalty of officers, makes them less concerned with their mission, and reduces their effectiveness in the field. It's bad. Hell, many of these rules exist to prevent such dangerous emotional conflicts from happening in the first place. Soldiers and officers simply can't be allowed to behave like "normal" people. The environment they live and work in and the job they do makes it a horrible idea. Strong discipline is absolutely required for a decent military.
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

"did they use anesthetic when they removed your sense of humor or did you have to weep and struggle like a tiny baby"
--General Battuta

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Drawing too many conclusions from one line of dialogue is not likely to be healthy, folks. The campaign deals with these issues in some depth.

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Just a heads up for those who for some reason were unable to play the mp4 file smoothly, it would seem the youtube-video quality has improved at least to a point it is watchable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpF1pnb1qXc

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
That's fair enough, but these craft are mostly employed in situations where such an event is unlikely to take place. And fair enough, they have the potential to level something important, but who's to say these guys are actually going to do such a thing? They don't recruit the closest person they see for aircrew, the selection process is quite rigorous in nature, and if someone can't take the stress of combat, they're most likely going to fail the recruitment process. Combat is stressful, so we recruit people who can handle it, and employ strategies to deal with Combat Stress (Units being rotated from the front-lines every 30 days etc.) And besides, psychological support is a must on the frontlines, and I'd imagine it'd be there in spades by the 27th Century. Someone getting pissed off enough to level a planet should not happen when we're talking about people who've been picked because they can survive this kind of stuff (among many other things).

And yet it remains true that we cannot still and may never be able to reliably predict the behavior of a human being in combat, or tell if he's lying reliably. There is a saying about spies that would hold equally true to anyone who has gone off the deep end; all it takes is the will to do nothing until the right moment. There's a reason why modern nuclear weapons procedures rely on the two-man rule. Granting that kind of power to one person is considered far too dangerous.

Incidentally, this might explain why FS bombers are so incredibly huge; they have their own two-man rule or possibly a dedicated security guy to validate their launches. (Lord knows they've the room for that.)

Well with the TSB, do we know if lovers favoured one another over the rest of their unit? It may have been their individual ability as soldiers which made them effective, rather than their unit cohesion, the latter being essential in modern warfare. Esprit-de-corps is a small part, but it is one of the aims of discipline in the military, I mean, the stereotypical Marine doesn't shout OORAH because his platoon is a bunch of partyboys, discipline helps foster the pride of a professional unit and maintain that professional status.

The TSB was considered effective in its time because of its unit cohesion; in simple terms, it never broke, you had to wipe it out or force its commander to pull it back. Question answered.

Also, OORAH is more of a Rangers thing.

Oh sorry, I didn't "willfully ignore" it as such, but when you take the hard-line in the military, at least it acts as a deterrent for that kind of behaviour. It's better that you discourage that kind of behaviour rather than condone it, in my opinion. Well it's not the physical act that's the issue here (although it can be an issue on the frontlines where no contraception is available), but the feelings that go with it. Those feelings of attachment or lust, love, and whatnot, have the power to interrupt the real discipline. It's situations like where the pilot has to act on his own initiative, (sorry for self quote)

Any regulation that is issued and regularly disobeyed is a threat to discipline and stability in a unit.

You have the notion to protect the one you're intimate with, rather than the most logical action. So the UEF can train its people to **** one another, but lose all feelings of attachment in battle? Fair enough, that may be possible, but in combat learned behaviour gives way to instinct, and you have the potential of all that biting you in the ass.

No, but you can make it work for you, as the TSB did. Assign them to the same wing pair. You can build on existing relationships in this way. Armies in the past have recruited on a territorial basis for the same reason.

With regards to "pissed off pilots", I think someone who has been whipped into a vengeful rage wouldn't be able to even get into his fighter at all. They're not like cars; you can't just jump into a starfighter and fly away (consider the long and detailed set of checks and procedures undertaken before launching a real-life aircraft; a spacecraft would be even more complex). The crewmen and officers aboard ships live in very close proximity and become extremely familiar with one another; everyone will know if someone seems a little "off". Then that someone will be grounded until the brass is 110% sure the problem is corrected.

This is not practical to keeping your squadron a functional combat unit. The analogous situation is WW2, where the original rules were two years after a malarial attack you couldn't fly. They cut it to two months fast but it wasn't good enough to keep units in combat. They had to release authority to return to duty status to the flight surgeon. The same thing happened with combat fatigue.

In a unit in combat, taking losses, under enormous stress, you can't do this. Everyone will seem a little off, or a whole hell of a lot off. Nobody's going to behave normally. Some people simply fight angry to boot. That's how they're wired. You simply can't afford detailed pyschological screening when there are missions to fly and targets to kill. You'll watch your people and pull the ones who can't handle it if you can, but the system is not and cannot be perfect, and the dangers are greater than ever.

Also I challenge your "in close proximity" considering the destroyers and other ships we've seen have more than enough space aboard to give every crew member an individual cabin, never mind crew as lofty as officer flight crew.

And as I said, the only thing it takes to slip through...is to do nothing. Anyone can do nothing.

Also, Command has demonstrated the ability to remotely lock, unlock, arm, and disarm pilots' weapons remotely. By the time your (carefully vetted and psychologically tested) pilot somehow got to the point of committing mass murder because Command punished him for fraternizing with a superior, Command would be able to stop his killing spree with the push of a button.

This.

This. Is utter madness.

Nobody will ever build such a capablity that the pilot cannot themselves lock out or override. The danger of an enemy getting ahold of it is much, much too great.

The risk (which is smaller than NGTM-1R thinks) does not justify lax discipline and officers having extremely unprofessional relationships with each other. This sort of behavior threatens the integrity and loyalty of officers, makes them less concerned with their mission, and reduces their effectiveness in the field. It's bad. Hell, many of these rules exist to prevent such dangerous emotional conflicts from happening in the first place. Soldiers and officers simply can't be allowed to behave like "normal" people. The environment they live and work in and the job they do makes it a horrible idea. Strong discipline is absolutely required for a decent military.

See all my other obversations, and note that your idea of a breach of discipline and my idea of a breach of discipline are very different things. As long as you can make people people obey the regs and take orders and carry them out efficently, discipline is being maintained. If the regs don't happen to contain fraternization rules in the same form as ours...tough **** for you, I guess.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Woolie Wool

  • 211
  • Fire main batteries
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Quote
This.

This. Is utter madness.

Nobody will ever build such a capablity that the pilot cannot themselves lock out or override. The danger of an enemy getting ahold of it is much, much too great.

Except that Command has built in just such a capability! In fact they used it in Proving Grounds to cripple your weapons remotely.

Quote
See all my other obversations, and note that your idea of a breach of discipline and my idea of a breach of discipline are very different things. As long as you can make people people obey the regs and take orders and carry them out efficently, discipline is being maintained. If the regs don't happen to contain fraternization rules in the same form as ours...tough **** for you, I guess.
Sexual fraternization is a breach in discipline! It creates nepotistic, emotionally charged, dangerous relationships between military personnel that destroy unit cohesion and create jealousy and conflict. As for "tough ****", you're not on the BP team and you have no creative control over the project, so you have no right to say such a thing. Don't you dare try to speak for Darius or the other BP team members (at least one of whom has already said the UEF have a serious discipline problem). Did you get all of your ideas on the military and warfare from Battlestar Galactica (which, by the way depicts a broken, tattered, and dysfunctional shell of what once was the Colonial armed forces who are allowed to act like asses and generally be sick, messed-up people because there are only 100,000 people left in the entire human race)?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 01:44:05 am by Woolie Wool »
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

"did they use anesthetic when they removed your sense of humor or did you have to weep and struggle like a tiny baby"
--General Battuta

 
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Great stuff!

The gameplay itself looks excellent. Being a newcomer to FS Open, I have to say I prefer the 3.9 'look' of flak. A single streaking tracer round that explodes rather than the original look of three exploding 'orbs', although the secondary effects are quite nice.

Also kudos for the GTVA not acting like morons and retreating their corvette and destroyer when the battle turned against them.

The new pilot and story looks great. I agree the dialog could probably be tightened a little. Maybe not quite so many F-bombs since that was a bit distracting from the rest of the battle. I'm left wondering though what happened to Samuel and the rest of the GTVA defectors. But I'm sure all that will be answered in good time.

Can't wait guys! Best of luck to the team.

 

Offline Dilmah G

  • Failed juggling
  • 211
  • Do try it.
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Well first thing's first, with what I've seen, or allowed/willing to divulge, the UEF seems to have a discipline problem within the junior ranks, that's not to say this is so crippling the UEF is combat ineffective, because as we've seen in the video, that's not the case.

Am really groggy at the moment (been sleeping), standby for a full response folks.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 02:54:48 am by Dilmah G »

 
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Actually, I am curious. Does the team plan on continuing to change the character POV throughout the rest of War in Heaven and beyond? I think that's a great idea to view the story from a bunch of different perspectives myself. Seeing the battle from the GTVA perspective at Neptune for example was great, and there was some awesome dialog there.

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
No, the campaign is set from one character's perspective just like AoA was. Those missions where you play on GTVA's side are Dilmah's "unofficial" non-campaign missions.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Except that Command has built in just such a capability! In fact they used it in Proving Grounds to cripple your weapons remotely.

And I posisted the existence of a means for a pilot to override or lock out this ability, because it's really damn dangerous otherwise. There is no evidence to the contrary of this. Try again.

Sexual fraternization is a breach in discipline! It creates nepotistic, emotionally charged, dangerous relationships between military personnel that destroy unit cohesion and create jealousy and conflict.

Standard military life does pretty much the same thing, but more to the point, I've already presented evidence and scenarios that directly contradict you, and nepotism is a charge unfounded as long as we don't know what exactly the rules are. It might prohibit (in fact almost certainly does prohibit, because to do otherwise would be madness) relationships with subordinates, but not those who do not fall into your unit or who are relative equals.

As for "tough ****", you're not on the BP team and you have no creative control over the project, so you have no right to say such a thing. Don't you dare try to speak for Darius or the other BP team members (at least one of whom has already said the UEF have a serious discipline problem).

*cough*

I hate to break it to you, but I am testing for this project, and my opinion has been asked for (though admittedly my suggestions have been overruled about as often as they've been implemented). I'll also note Dilmah has been reprimanded by Battuta for presenting his view as fact, so you don't really have a leg to stand on.

That is, however, neither here nor there. I'm positing the UEF's rules and regs are different, and not necessarily bad for that difference, or at least that by 26-whatever we'll be able to overcome the problems the changes pose with improved training methods. You're throwing some kind of fit about the fact that I did this. This has nothing to do with my being or not being a part of the BP team. I'm not speaking for the local canoncity here. I don't think I managed to imply that I was, but apparently you do. That's your problem.

I'll ignore the Galactica ad-hominem just this once, and simply relate to you the rule I've heard from somebody following every cruise of the carriers based out of San Diego. "There will be at least one female aboard who ends up involved with someone per three months of deployment. Usually an officer, not enlisted." We humans are unfortunately rather fond of sex.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
As much as I like to see discussion about what little we have revealed to the public, can we please cool down a bit? It's getting too warm here.

 

Offline Vip

  • 28
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
BTW. What's the deal with the 27th century ? I thought BP took place a few years after Capella got toasted, which happened in 2367 :confused:
Lieutenant Commander Richard "Viper" Pred

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
BP takes place 18 years after Capella. BP2 takes place 1.5 years after BP. That would make it 24th century however, not 27th.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 06:26:59 am by Fury »

 

Offline Woolie Wool

  • 211
  • Fire main batteries
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Except that Command has built in just such a capability! In fact they used it in Proving Grounds to cripple your weapons remotely.

And I posisted the existence of a means for a pilot to override or lock out this ability, because it's really damn dangerous otherwise. There is no evidence to the contrary of this. Try again.
Unless you have Gaius Baltar on your R&D team, it's really not that dangerous. Digital encryption technology is always far ahead of codebreaking technology. You can vastly increase the strength of your encryption just by adding more bits. Modern military codes are for all intents and purposes unbreakable, I imagine the same would be true in the 24th century.

Quote
Standard military life does pretty much the same thing, but more to the point, I've already presented evidence and scenarios that directly contradict you, and nepotism is a charge unfounded as long as we don't know what exactly the rules are. It might prohibit (in fact almost certainly does prohibit, because to do otherwise would be madness) relationships with subordinates, but not those who do not fall into your unit or who are relative equals.
You know, Simms and LaPorte aren't exactly equals, what with Simms being a  superior officer and all. I don't really give a **** about some soldier banging someone from a totally different unit with whom he will have little or no professional interaction and will not have to rely on, but what LaPorte was doing was completely anathema to the way a military rank structure is supposed to work.

Quote
*cough*

I hate to break it to you, but I am testing for this project, and my opinion has been asked for (though admittedly my suggestions have been overruled about as often as they've been implemented). I'll also note Dilmah has been reprimanded by Battuta for presenting his view as fact, so you don't really have a leg to stand on.
Well I'm sorry I didn't see the badge (that for some mysterious reason you do not have). The way you phrased it made it seem like you were speaking for the rest of the BP team, even after one of them said something that contradicted your statement.

Quote
That is, however, neither here nor there. I'm positing the UEF's rules and regs are different, and not necessarily bad for that difference, or at least that by 26-whatever we'll be able to overcome the problems the changes pose with improved training methods. You're throwing some kind of fit about the fact that I did this. This has nothing to do with my being or not being a part of the BP team. I'm not speaking for the local canoncity here. I don't think I managed to imply that I was, but apparently you do. That's your problem.
You do know that the modern rank structure and regulations exist for a reason and are the work of people smarter than either of us laboring for centuries to increase unit discipline, right?

Quote
I'll ignore the Galactica ad-hominem just this once, and simply relate to you the rule I've heard from somebody following every cruise of the carriers based out of San Diego. "There will be at least one female aboard who ends up involved with someone per three months of deployment. Usually an officer, not enlisted." We humans are unfortunately rather fond of sex.
Who is she involved with? Are they in the same chain of command? Do they get in trouble? There aren't any specifics here.

You know, it just occured to me with the whole "angry lovelorn pilot blows up city" idea--why would pilots patrolling planets in GTVA space even need their full complement of weapons? Do you think every military aircraft doing exercises in the United States is fully armed (believe me, a fully armed B-52 or B-1B, if not quite capable of destroying a large city with its conventional payload, can destroy a significant fraction of one) and able to drop bombs at a moment's notice? Hell, keeping fully armed fighters in the air all the time outside of deep space is probably dangerous just due to the risk of one of them crashing into the ground. More heavily armed fighters would probably be kept on standby in case of an invasion.

And if someone tried to "go out with a blaze of glory" from orbit or deep space, that person would not have time to reach a planetary target before being annihilated by other ships, orbital defenses, or ground-based guns.

Oh, by the way, with the BSG thing: if there is is an actual argument aside from it, it's not an ad hominem. It's just me being annoyed at you.
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

"did they use anesthetic when they removed your sense of humor or did you have to weep and struggle like a tiny baby"
--General Battuta

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
My comment spawned an interesting tangent. ;)
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline Dilmah G

  • Failed juggling
  • 211
  • Do try it.
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Warning. Long post.

Quote
And yet it remains true that we cannot still and may never be able to reliably predict the behavior of a human being in combat, or tell if he's lying reliably. There is a saying about spies that would hold equally true to anyone who has gone off the deep end; all it takes is the will to do nothing until the right moment. There's a reason why modern nuclear weapons procedures rely on the two-man rule. Granting that kind of power to one person is considered far too dangerous.

Incidentally, this might explain why FS bombers are so incredibly huge; they have their own two-man rule or possibly a dedicated security guy to validate their launches. (Lord knows they've the room for that.)
Individuals are put under similar stress to combat situations during the course of the Pilots Course, and COMSURV. If one cannot handle the stress of being shot at, they are going to fail. As time goes by, we get better at sniffing out individuals who cannot function in combat, and weeding out those who are not 110% Pilot material. As I've said before, we take steps in the Modern Military to eliminate the risk of this happening. Besides, there's a Chain of Command to be followed if an individual has a problem, and psychological support. Trust the UEF to have the latter in spades, valuing psychological and spiritual health so highly.

Quote
The TSB was considered effective in its time because of its unit cohesion; in simple terms, it never broke, you had to wipe it out or force its commander to pull it back. Question answered.
Who's to say you can replicate this in an entire planet's Fighter Corps? Turn them all into homosexual lovers, and then put them in the same unit? I don't think so. Fair enough, here we have a documented case of it working, but our system's been serving us right for hundreds of years, getting better as we progress. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Quote
Any regulation that is issued and regularly disobeyed is a threat to discipline and stability in a unit.
Fair enough, this regulation is broken. Name me a Fighter Squadron in a respectable Air Force that breaks this regulation on a regular basis. One of my late family members was an Mi-24 pilot in the SLAF, even in a helicopter squadron in a third-world country, I didn't hear about any fraternizing of this nature.

Quote
No, but you can make it work for you, as the TSB did. Assign them to the same wing pair. You can build on existing relationships in this way. Armies in the past have recruited on a territorial basis for the same reason.
That's quite true, now what happens when relationships end? You've now got a tight-knit four man team that's divided down the centre. In combat, mixing and matching your pilots is not the most preferable course of action. And now what's your lover going to do when his boyfriend gets his ass shot up? Become combat ineffective for a week? This is creating a whole host of problems that needn't be there on the front line. By allowing this, you fix one problem, and create ten others. This kind of thinking does not sit well with military types.

Quote
This is not practical to keeping your squadron a functional combat unit. The analogous situation is WW2, where the original rules were two years after a malarial attack you couldn't fly. They cut it to two months fast but it wasn't good enough to keep units in combat. They had to release authority to return to duty status to the flight surgeon. The same thing happened with combat fatigue.
Fair enough, but only a poor military with nothing to spare will send a looney out in an $80 million dollar fighter or whatever it is the obscene price tag is these days. I don't know how it works over there, but over here, our FJ squadrons have more pilots than planes (or at least, we like to try and keep it like that IIRC), at the baseline, we have a number of pilots equivalent to an extra element that are not on flying duties, ideally, we rotate these Officers during the course of deployment, to ensure all members are well-rested.

Quote
In a unit in combat, taking losses, under enormous stress, you can't do this. Everyone will seem a little off, or a whole hell of a lot off. Nobody's going to behave normally. Some people simply fight angry to boot. That's how they're wired. You simply can't afford detailed pyschological screening when there are missions to fly and targets to kill. You'll watch your people and pull the ones who can't handle it if you can, but the system is not and cannot be perfect, and the dangers are greater than ever.
Fair enough, but as it stands, units are rotated every 30 days from the frontline IIRC (according to a manual I read a few months ago, about Combat Fatigue). Pilots these days don't go insane in 30 days.
Quote
Also I challenge your "in close proximity" considering the destroyers and other ships we've seen have more than enough space aboard to give every crew member an individual cabin, never mind crew as lofty as officer flight crew.
Arrange a tour at your local airbase. Pay particular attention when you pass the Hangar if you're lucky enough to witness the Crew Chief + His team conversing with the pilot before Take-Off.

Quote
See all my other obversations, and note that your idea of a breach of discipline and my idea of a breach of discipline are very different things. As long as you can make people people obey the regs and take orders and carry them out efficently, discipline is being maintained. If the regs don't happen to contain fraternization rules in the same form as ours...tough **** for you, I guess.
Well I'm basing my BOD's off what we're working with today, rather than a military that exists more in Battuta and Darius' heads. (Though I have some knowledge from playing the campaign and paying a little attention when the two have a storyline discussion.)

Quote
Standard military life does pretty much the same thing, but more to the point, I've already presented evidence and scenarios that directly contradict you, and nepotism is a charge unfounded as long as we don't know what exactly the rules are. It might prohibit (in fact almost certainly does prohibit, because to do otherwise would be madness) relationships with subordinates, but not those who do not fall into your unit or who are relative equals.
It bloody shouldn't if it's done right. Proper maintenance of discipline should do much the opposite, and foster professional, working relationships between members, and tighter bonds between men in the same unit.

Quote
I'll also note Dilmah has been reprimanded by Battuta for presenting his view as fact, so you don't really have a leg to stand on.
Okay. Disclaimer for anyone else who wishes to take my comments out of context. This is my opinion on discipline, and my opinion only. I am not stating facts about the UEF (I can if you'd like to though), but I'm not. I'm discussing the need for discipline in the military. As far as I'm concerned, Laporte and Simms couldn't exist as far as I cared on this matter, and thus, I'm rarely mentioning them.
Quote
I'll ignore the Galactica ad-hominem just this once, and simply relate to you the rule I've heard from somebody following every cruise of the carriers based out of San Diego. "There will be at least one female aboard who ends up involved with someone per three months of deployment. Usually an officer, not enlisted." We humans are unfortunately rather fond of sex.
Eh. How many of these women are

A) Aircrew.
B) Not in logistics.
C) Still commissioned.

BTW. What's the deal with the 27th century ? I thought BP took place a few years after Capella got toasted, which happened in 2367 :confused:
I picked a number beginning with 2. :P
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 10:16:06 am by Dilmah G »

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
This debate is certainly interesting, but I just want to make it clear that the UEF does not officially endorse or embrace fraternization within the chain of command. The UEF's three main branches all have different approaches to discipline, however, and I think some of NGTM-1R's speculation has bubbled up at various points in the UEF's history, to one degree or another.

The question of whether the UEF military is too 'loose', to undisciplined, or even not undisciplined enough is tackled in the campaign. Drawing too much from a few lines of dialogue here is unwise.

Quote
You know, Simms and LaPorte aren't exactly equals, what with Simms being a  superior officer and all. I don't really give a **** about some soldier banging someone from a totally different unit with whom he will have little or no professional interaction and will not have to rely on, but what LaPorte was doing was completely anathema to the way a military rank structure is supposed to work.

I'm a bit put off by this, first because there's no banging going on here (just a punch-drunk young pilot after a major victory), and partly because Simms is from a completely different unit - somebody Laporte has never seen before and, so far as she knows, will probably never see again.

Quote
You do know that the modern rank structure and regulations exist for a reason and are the work of people smarter than either of us laboring for centuries to increase unit discipline, right?

We are aware of this, and you can rest assured that the demands of rank and regulation will not be ignored in the story. Keep in mind, however, that BP1 focused on an extraordinary pilot who did some very against-the-regs stuff for his father, and it clearly didn't imply that the GTVA as a whole is an undisciplined mess.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 12:52:19 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline asyikarea51

  • 210
  • -__-||
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
The only thing I could make out from the video was a dust-covered skybox. o_O

That said, when I saw the line about "Children of Ubuntu" or whatever it was I just felt like jacking the Hecate and launching its nuclear arsenal (or whatever similar big bang it carries since the dialogue has something to do with nuking some moon somewhere) right then and there. Come on, you have heat sinks, just OC THE BEAMS ALREADY!!! "What are you doing. Cut them up!!! CUT THEM UP!!! DON'T STOP FIRING TILL JUST BEFORE IT MELTS!!!" :wtf: :lol:
Inferno plz
The Power of Nightmares
TheHound: "Nice idea, but I have a thing against announcing campaigns before having them already finished."
G5K: "The flipside of that is that if you don't announce your campaign, yet take too long to finish it, other people may independently come up with some of the same ideas."

 

Offline Dilmah G

  • Failed juggling
  • 211
  • Do try it.
Re: War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer
Quote
The question of whether the UEF military is too 'loose', to undisciplined, or even not undisciplined enough is tackled in the campaign. Drawing too much from a few lines of dialogue here is unwise.
As I said, I'm drifting away from debating about the UEF, and more about the issue of discipline in general. But when your pilots don't give the respect of even calling superior officers Sir or Ma'am, and they don't get reprimanded for it on the spot, that makes me think the UEF aren't paying much attention to who they give commissions.