Author Topic: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.  (Read 19895 times)

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Offline Galemp

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
I particularly liked his dissection of the lightsaber battles... how you could actually follow the duels in the original trilogy, how they were a reflection of the people that were fighting them, their states of mind--not a huge overly choreographed light show.
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Offline Fenrir

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
As much I agree about TPM sucking and that most of the things the guy listed don't indeed make any sense, it's not like there wasn't just as many things in any of the OT movies which made about equally little sense.
That's quite true. But at least they managed to tell an engaging story.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
The prequels manage to do that too, albeit with more reliance on flashy CGI.

 

Offline Fenrir

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
Of the three I thought Episode III's story was the most engaging.

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
The prequels manage to do that too, albeit with more reliance on flashy CGI.

Really?

Because I still have no idea who the main character of the prequel trilogy is supposed to be.  I think it's Anakin, but...
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Offline Scotty

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
There are several protagonists.  Main character is Anakin, seeing as how the rest of the entire series revolves around him or the results of his actions.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
No, there really aren't.

Anakin doesn't show up until halfway through Episode I, and in Episode II and III he splits screentime with Obi-Wan (who is better-written and more sympathetic). The idea that Anakin is 'the main character in Star Wars' is something Lucas introduced during the whole prequel decline.

The prequels were storytelling failures. Episode III finally got its act together in the last hour.

Possibly the best way to tell the prequels would have been to begin with Anakin as a youth on Tatooine, just as the originals did, and then plot his rise and fall in contrast to Luke's journey.

As it stands, Episode I was an incoherent mess (a tax dispute with no main character concluding in no less than 4 simultaneous action setpieces, none of which we care about), Episode II was cripplingly dull until its Mattel set-piece climax and an actually decent final scene (Begun, the Clone Wars have!), and Episode III reeled, punch-drunk, into something like movie magic about the time Order 66 went down.

 

Offline Woolie Wool

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
I found it very accurate, even with the wierd voice, one of the parts that always confused me was the 'beyond death' thing, in Ep4, when Vader kills Obi-Wan, it's quite apparent that the outcome wasn't expected, especially if you consider the comment 'If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine', that's furthered by the fact that iirc Obi Wan isn't told that his own master has found a way back until after Anakins betrayal. Besides, and no offence to any Catholics here, but the way Vader got forgiven for everything he did simply by saying sorry before he died did remind me a lot of that particular religion, always struck me as the weakest point of the original movies.

It seemed to me more that Vader achieved redemption through dying, which is pretty much the reverse of Christianity (he dies for his own sins rather than doing it vicariously through a proxy), and in my opinion, far more logical. Keep in mind that it's only Luke who forgave him. As far as everyone else is concerned, he was still a monster, mass murderer, and war criminal and nothing will ever change that.

I suppose for me, the difference is that Vader is the cause of everything he undid, yes he saved the Galaxy after several years under the tyranny of an Emperor that his direct actions caused to be put in power anyway, had he not decapitated Windu, there would have been no Empire.:)
Yeah, that's true.  I'd like to point out though that by helping to found the Empire, he saved the galaxy in a profound way--really he saved all of Star Wars from sucking as much as the prequels.  Sure it's sort of retroactive salvation as the actually good movies his actions set up had already been made, but imagine if GL decided that having Anakin go bad was "too dark" and instead remade the original trilogy as a series of buddy cop movies featuring Windu and Skywalker.  I think we all know deep down that something like this will actually happen sooner or later.

Christensen: The Trade Federation is hiding something master, I can sense it!  Just give me my lightsaber back and I'll find the proof, I promise.

Jackson:  You're a loose laser cannon Skywalker.  If you don't play by the code, I'll bust you down to Padawan so hard your midichlorians will feel it.

Christensen:  Hear me, master.  I've had another vague premonition and now we have to run off to a pointless action set piece.  I'm sure we'll find the droids we're looking for this time!

Jackson:  ****, I'm three weeks from retirement mother****er.  I have a bad feeling about this.

I cannot think of two actors who are less appropriate for a Star Wars movie than Hayden Christensen and Samuel L. Jackson. You can like Jackson's "mutha****a" schtick if you must, but in Star Wars he had all the presence, gravitas, and acting talent of a two-by-four. As for Christensen, he doesn't even have a history of being a decent actor, he just blows. The last time I watched Episode III I spent most of it waiting for Ian McDiarmid to appear on the set again. Now there is a good actor. He can do the card-carrying EEEEEEEEVIL villain persona with so much conviction that you can't help but buy it.

Okay, for example he mentions that the droid in the intro shouldn't know that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are Jedi. Both of them are wearing widely recognizable Jedi apparel. And there's the thing with "Jedi Knight". It doesn't refer to the title of Jedi Knight only, but to Jedi overall, so there's nothing wrong with the opening crawl.
The "widely recognizable Jedi apparel" is Tattooinian traditional clothing. In Episode IV everyone on the whole goddamn planet dresses like that. Obi-Wan was in hiding, from the context of that movie he wore the robes to blend in because wearing a Jedi uniform would make him easy to spot and get his ass killed in a New York minute. But then Lucas forgets all about that (early-onset Alzheimer's? That might explain a lot) and turns the Bedouin-like costumes worn by Tattooinian peasants (and which make good sense on a world like Tattooine) into the official uniform of the Jedi Order based halfway across the galaxy. That is stupid and it was a stupid decision to do that.

I particularly liked his dissection of the lightsaber battles... how you could actually follow the duels in the original trilogy, how they were a reflection of the people that were fighting them, their states of mind--not a huge overly choreographed light show.

I think a lot could be done if the emotional impact and humanity of the OT duels could be combined with the more sophisticated swordfighting techniques of the PT (only less acrobatic and drawn-out and more brutal and direct, with Jedi striking at each other instead of each other's blades, kind of like like...a real swordfight). They had better stuntmen, they had martial arts experts, and they still couldn't outdo Episode IV with two old men swinging sticks around.

For some reason I find Episode II worse than Episode I. Episode I is more childish (instead of being child-friendly like the OT, it was outright done with a childlike mindset) and contrived (podracing. Stupid, stupid, stupid.), but Episode II had even less sense of storytelling and pacing. Instead of a story you get a whole bunch of scenes tacked together with little sense that there's any sort of unfolding narrative. Terrist attack! Worms! A rehash of the podracing scene with flying cars! A diner! A library! Rain! Grays! Clones! An obvious ripoff of Boba Fett with a half-assed rationalization! Jedi Council! Dogfights! Attention deficit disorder! How many different set pieces can we cram into this movie before the audience walks out?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 12:14:37 am by Woolie Wool »
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
The last time I watched Episode III I spent most of it waiting for Ian McDiarmid to appear on the set again. Now there is a good actor. He can do the card-carrying EEEEEEEEVIL villain persona with so much conviction that you can't help but buy it.

POOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRR! UNLIIIIIIIIMMMMMIIIIIIIIITTTTTTEEEEEEED PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

But yeah, other than that one instance, Ian McDiarmid was fanstastic.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
I particularly liked his dissection of the lightsaber battles... how you could actually follow the duels in the original trilogy, how they were a reflection of the people that were fighting them, their states of mind--not a huge overly choreographed light show.

I'm going to have to be fair here.

I could follow the new-trilogy battles.

And they made more sense. The new trilogy battles involved a lot more movement of the blade, and as such, they worked better; because a lightsaber is blade without weight, inertia, or momentum. The kind of freewheeling frenetic style of the prequels seems to match the kind of weapon they're supposedly using much better.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
That may be so, but the new-trilogy duels did not do as much to contribute to the characters or story. Which, ultimately, should be a primary function of a good fight scene.

There was at least some effort made on that front. But it was not as good as in the original trilogy, where each duel told a little story by dint of being necessarily restrained.

They should have found some happy medium between the crazy technical choreography and the narrative of the duel.

Plus, the linked review did point out the inexcusable continuity glitch of having Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan use Force Speed in the opening scenes of the movie, and then not use it when it was vital in the duel at the end. Unless Obi-Wan's Force bar was empty because he used it all on Force pushes during the duel or some crap like that.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
And everything works at cross-purposes. You learned a lot from the lightsaber duals of TPM (namely, that Maul is seriously one badass mother****er to be taking people on with a dual blade like that, since it's more of a handicap than a help). Obi-wan and Qui-Gon fight alike because one of them trained the other. Later on, Anakin fights like Obi-wan for the same reason.

Around and around in circles, and the appreciation for detail comes out...here?
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
Plus, the linked review did point out the inexcusable continuity glitch of having Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan use Force Speed in the opening scenes of the movie, and then not use it when it was vital in the duel at the end. Unless Obi-Wan's Force bar was empty because he used it all on Force pushes during the duel or some crap like that.
The other lovely thing about that scene is that those (completely pointless) magical force-field door thingies seem to take several times shorter to open right before Obi-Wan gets stuck in them.  :p

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
I am not sure if you're disagreeing with me or what, NGTM-1R. But yes, I wouldn't deny that you can learn stuff from the prequel fight scenes; I just think (as with so many things) that the restraint involved in the originals produced a better final product. Much like how Endor ended up being, in many ways, a more satisfying fight than the Episode III kitchen-sink Coruscant battle, and how Yavin was in turn even more tense and dramatic.

Plus, the linked review did point out the inexcusable continuity glitch of having Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan use Force Speed in the opening scenes of the movie, and then not use it when it was vital in the duel at the end. Unless Obi-Wan's Force bar was empty because he used it all on Force pushes during the duel or some crap like that.
The other lovely thing about that scene is that those (completely pointless) magical force-field door thingies seem to take several times shorter to open right before Obi-Wan gets stuck in them.  :p

Pointless? They're clearly there for crowd control. You can't let everybody in to the bottomless pit room at the same time.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
I am not sure if you're disagreeing with me or what, NGTM-1R. But yes, I wouldn't deny that you can learn stuff from the prequel fight scenes; I just think (as with so many things) that the restraint involved in the originals produced a better final product. Much like how Endor ended up being, in many ways, a more satisfying fight than the Episode III kitchen-sink Coruscant battle, and how Yavin was in turn even more tense and dramatic.

Yes and no. Not all the narrative wheels turn the same way. :P
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Offline zookeeper

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
Possibly the best way to tell the prequels would have been to begin with Anakin as a youth on Tatooine, just as the originals did, and then plot his rise and fall in contrast to Luke's journey.

I think that pretty much ever since I saw AotC, I've figured that the best way would have simply been to start the trilogy where AotC started or slightly before and have Anakin's fall already at the end of the second movie. Frankly, I don't see we'd have needed to see where he came from originally, and having a whole movie for all that "helping the empire hunt down and destroy the jedi knights" (which is the most the OT ever tells us about what he had been doing before ANH) would have been nicer than the 15 minutes or so that the whole order 66 business took.

 

Offline Flaser

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.

...

I particularly liked his dissection of the lightsaber battles... how you could actually follow the duels in the original trilogy, how they were a reflection of the people that were fighting them, their states of mind--not a huge overly choreographed light show.

I think a lot could be done if the emotional impact and humanity of the OT duels could be combined with the more sophisticated swordfighting techniques of the PT (only less acrobatic and drawn-out and more brutal and direct, with Jedi striking at each other instead of each other's blades, kind of like like...a real swordfight). They had better stuntmen, they had martial arts experts, and they still couldn't outdo Episode IV with two old men swinging sticks around.

....


Two old men from an era when actors were actually one-upping each other with their true exploits on the fencing strips. In the classic "Big Damn Movies" the actors actually knew how to fence, hence why the choreography was so much more believable.
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Offline Woolie Wool

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
Those old men weren't particularly good at fencing though. Compare their swordsmanship to that of Christopher Lee, who made everyone else in the PT look totally incompetent.
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

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Offline Fenrir

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
Aaaaand now he's gearing up to take on Attack of the Clones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkxQ6HYDwIA

I can't wait.

 

Offline Lucika

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Re: This 70 minute review of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is amazing.
Aaaaand now he's gearing up to take on Attack of the Clones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkxQ6HYDwIA

I can't wait.

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