[High Max]

They could have just withdrawn the Colossus from Capella when they realized that more than 9 juggernauts were heading to Capella and they had no hope of holding Capella.

[Bob-san]

There is no way you can argue against my comment. Also, your link isn't clickable. GTVA warship weaponry is NOT superior to the Shivans and the Sathanas' beams are superior to anything the Alliance has. The only exceptions are that the GTVA has better primaries and better fighter/bomber armor on average. But the GTVA does not have tech superiority. How can you argue against that?

I'm guessing that link was directed to the Sathanas because I see the words underlined in my quote. I will check the quote code and the code in your post to be sure and then I will read your intended link.

Edit: you never attached any links. Oh, I said the wrong thing.

Sorry, I meant Colossus. Silly me.

Now on to something productive. That's actually a decent point that keeping the Big C in Capella would likely result in it being targeted, as the GeeTeeVeeAye had no clue that Capella was apparently going to go boom. Sort of fails in price, though. If the Shivans really wanted to stop us one or two Sathanas juggernaughts would have let the GTVA use the Big C as a big and fruitless diversion, while still going after the jump nodes. Because really; after the Big C was disabled (if it was in fact disabled and not wasting 10,000 lives on 15 seconds of distraction), it was a sitting duck and not just to a Sathanas. A supernova was coming; any left-over assets are apparently overpowered and destroyed by the supernova's shockwave. It was dead either way. Had the Shivans thought about longer-than-15-second-diversion-strategies, they would have sent the Demon to disabled the Colossus and sent the Sathanas through the node, because NOTHING, especially not the Colossus, would have stopped a Sathanas from going through the jump node.

On the other hand, perhaps the Shivans HAD feared the Colossus was one of x number that the GTVA had? Considering that their actions apparently seal the races off, they might have thought that the GTVA were more industrious and would have built a few more of those superships at least in the thirty-odd years they'd been gone. It could quickly become a deathtrap for them; the GTVA's ships have heavy side barrages (a hold-over from FS1's more-basic-cannons-equals-more-destroyed-ships) while the Shivans have more potent frontal assaults. Imagine a situation where three Colossus's surround a jump node and are able to lay down significant amounts of firepower on any Shivan ships coming through. The Sathanas may make it through, but it'd cost them a dozen or more ships to traverse that pass at Thermopylae, and had the GTVA had the resources (including a bit of strategic planning), could have majorly damaged that 80+ Sathanas fleet. The GTVA are no slackers when it comes to defense; many basic turrets plus heavy flak plus many antifighter beams plus decent smaller ships.

It might be an interesting mission to try and code though it'd be 1000% BoE Syndrome.

[High Max]

It might be an interesting mission to try and code though it'd be 1000% BoE Syndrome.

I would like to see this done. Maybe make the mission have about 4 or 5 Colossus' and some smaller warships. Also have Sathanas' jump in and some smaller Shivan warships. No problem with most pc systems these days. Also add some Mjolnirs RBCs. Will this be done and released in the missions subforum someday?

[Bob-san]

It might be an interesting mission to try and code though it'd be 1000% BoE Syndrome.

I would like to see this done. Maybe make the mission have about 4 or 5 Colossus' and some smaller warships. Also have Sathanas' jump in and some smaller Shivan warships. No problem with most pc systems these days. Also add some Mjolnirs RBCs. Will this be done and released in the missions subforum someday?

Only thing is to be careful of the beam trajectories. The Supersoakers would all have to be off to one side, the Mjolnirs would have to be aimed so to not hit any Supersoakers. Toss in a few wings of bombers, a dozen Sathanas juggernaughts, and a scattering of destroyers and corvettes. The real question is which beams to equip the Colossus fleet with; standard Retail or overdriven? And what of ranges? Judging by the Shivans preferring to supernova Capella, they'd likely be afraid of a complete blockade to the point of avoiding it best as possible. However, had the blockade been sprung but a few hours before, I would assume that it'd take a few days and quite a few casualties for the Shivans to find a way around, and probably would do it as a two-pronged attack. Open a thread over in the single missions forum.

The GTVA were smarter in their approach and assumed that the Shivans would be able to advance in technology. Instead of a single Colossus, we built five of them. The "first" Colossus came "off the line" during regular time, the GTVI had a Colossus for experimentation, the third Colossus was rushed out of production, complete, following the discovery of the Nebula Past Gamma Draconis. The fourth and fifth were awaiting staff, armor, and their full compliment of engines. The fourth is rushed (partially complete) to completion following discovery of the Sathanas. The fifth and final Colossus (less complete than the fourth) enters service after the first Sathanas is destroyed. Now, discovery of the other Sathanas juggernaughts commences and the GTVA decides to make a stand in Capella, blockading the node to Gamma Draconis with the assumption that the Shivans would use this path were they to enter GTVA territory. Mission starts and the third Colossus stands "guard" at the jump node along with an Orion. A Ravana destroyer jumps through and is quickly decimated, at which time the GTVA rushes a second Colossus to the "scene". The Mjolnirs and first Colossus engage a Sathanas coming through the jump node. The remaining Colossus juggernaughts are all summoned and two, on alert in adjacent systems, arrive within minutes. Four GTVJ's crowd the GammaDrax node and a fishy destroyer joins the blockade. Several Shivan destroyers pass through the node and are quickly turned into ash, followed but a few minutes later by a trio of SJ's arriving within minutes of each other. Once more the mjolnirs combined with the juggernaughts engage and quickly destroy the Sathanas Trio. The fifth and final Colossus arrives and takes position, at which point a dozen more Shivan capships try to pass through. All are destoyed. A cruiser passes through the node and gives an all-clear, at which point that last Colossus jumps through. News comes in that the Collie 5 destroyed a collective dozen Shivan cruisers and corvettes.

Emergency mission pops up a few "days" later (having kept the blockade the entire time) and a few more Sathanas juggernaughts try to pass and are stopped. However, the Shivans somehow found a way around. Another Sathanas trio jumps in, engages the blockade, and destroys them. As a last-ditch effort and while at low health, one Colossus turns from the GTVA Baseball Bat to the GTVA Battering Ram, destroying itself and the Sathanas by ramming and entering subspace together.

[crossfire92]

Well, with all the comments about the uselessness of the Collossus, I'm wondering how realistically functional it was. From the dialogue in FS2 when we first meet it, its been apparently a really well kept secret using combinations of Vasudan and Terran technologies.
...but what if it wasn't? What if they had to rush the production of the Collossus to put it on active service sooner than planned due to some sort of intel leak? Like if/when a company has some information leak about a product and then has to rush the press release of it to smooth over the cracks; as if to say, that was nothing but a hiccup, we're right on track and still on top of things. The Collossus could have been made prematurely active due to a risk of losing its shock value.

...unless we take a more disturbing train of thought that the Collossus never was as powerful as claimed - perhaps it was designed only for the said shock value, maintaining the facade of incredible firepower, yet in reality having very little offensive capability. The GTVA may have lied to everybody about this to give a source of hope, this man-made behemoth that would protect us all, and to inspire some sort of fighting spirit or confidence; yet its truthfully capabilities would have been nowhere near what was claimed.
...if that makes sense...

Oh and I do like the idea of the Shivans treating us a bit how we treated them - that they may have thought we had a much larger fleet behind us and tried to seal off our two parts of space. Flawed at the moment, but I could understand something like that possibly occuring.
And I'd love to see a sort of Tantive IV escape-like mission with the NTF running away with plans for the collossus, I think thats a mini-campaign right there.

[NGTM-1R]

The Colossus was perfectly functional, against the threat it was designed for. Nobody knew about the Sathanas or even assumed such a ship was probable (and let's face it, you'll get more mileage out an equivalent tonnage of Ravanas most likely, so the existence of the Sathanas in a pure warship role is unlikely).

So they built the Colossus to fight against destroyers, most likely as a blockade breaker and Lucifer-hunter. It was presented with a completely different threat that it was not at all designed or equipped to combat. Considering the Sathanas' native advantages, particularly in the scenario where the two actually faced-off, the Colossus actually performed quite well.

What do you think would happen if the Colossus jumped out?  There was a serious risk that the Sathanas would simply follow it, and the only place worth jumping to for the Colossus would be a jump node to Terran-Vasudan space, the final missions take place between those nodes.

The Sathanas wasn't drawn to the area to kill the Colossus, it was drawn in to deal with the GTVA ships threatening the Gamma Drac node. It has no reason to chase; the Colossus runs and that's mission accomplished.

[High Max]

Considering the Sathanas' native advantages, particularly in the scenario where the two actually faced-off, the Colossus actually performed quite well.

Only because of the surgical strike that Alpha 1 executed against the Sathanas' forward beam turrets. The Colossus wouldn't do well at all if those beam turrets were left intact. People seem to forget that though. Even the briefing stated that at least 2 beam turrets must be neutralized for the Colossus to have a fighting chance, but I know that even then, the Sathanas would destroy the Colossus before the Colossus could destroy the Sathanas.

[Paladin327]

So they built the Colossus to fight against destroyers, most likely as a blockade breaker and Lucifer-hunter.

The Colossus' intended purpose in a nutshell. she is to destroyers as the Deimos is to cruisers. she's designed to chew through destroyers fast.this is evidenced when she ters through the SD Beast. she was never designed to take on a ship like the Sathanas, let alone 80 of them. rushed into service or not, the Colossus is still a competant warship in her intended role. However, i do find it odd that the GTVA managed to keep a 6 kilometer long warship, that took 20 years to construct, which probably cost hundreds of trillion dollars to make, a secret and catch the NTF off guard...

[Bob-san]

Considering the Sathanas' native advantages, particularly in the scenario where the two actually faced-off, the Colossus actually performed quite well.

Only because of the surgical strike that Alpha 1 executed against the Sathanas' forward beam turrets. The Colossus wouldn't do well at all if those beam turrets were left intact. People seem to forget that though. Even the briefing stated that at least 2 beam turrets must be neutralized for the Colossus to have a fighting chance, but I know that even then, the Sathanas would destroy the Colossus before the Colossus could destroy the Sathanas.

Beam cannons that were undefended. That's a Sathanas weakness; it's ridiculously easy to disable their primary weapons and that's what the GTVA seems to excel at; surgical strikes at major targets. A Colossus most definitely CANNOT survive an assault when a Sathanas is pointed towards them. Likewise, a Sathanas CANNOT survive an assault when it's facing away from the threat. For all intensive purposes, a Sathanas is a one-trick horse. Large and well defended with the ability to neutralize any capital ships in front of it. The Colossus is almost more refined; its defenses are much better while still being large and well defended.

[High Max]

Well, the beams were defended by 2 seemingly heavy flak cannons and had extremely thick armor. So it was defended to a certain extent. I get what you mean though. You must be saying that the Colossus had more anti-fighter turrets defending its beam turrets, but that is because the Colossus doesn't have arms sticking out of range from its defending turrets. Plus, the Sathanas can easily turn around and face the Colossus to open fire, and the Colossus' beam turrets take so much longer to recharge. I'm not sure how much damage per salvo the Colossus does compared to the Sathanas, but I'm sure it's in the tables.

Bottom line is, if you just have the Colossus and the Sathanas going one on one with no bombers, then the Colossus with do a pathetic job, but like a person said, it was not designed to go against Sathani. The Golgotha is though, but sadly it is exclusively a BWO baby and will not be seen against Shivans.

[Dr. Pwnguin]

Why not just build hundreds of fighters with Maxims, and have them pelt the poor Sathani from afar?

[The E]

Because no Maxim can kill a Sathanas?

[Dr. Pwnguin]

Given enough time they could 

[The E]

Nope.

[High Max]

E is correct. Warships of corvette class and above will not go below 10% hull if only primaries or normal missiles are used. Only other warships or bombs that are Trebs or higher will bring it down lower than 10%. I noticed this around the time I first got FS2 in 2000 since it was different in this sense than FS1. This limitation is annoying in the mission against the Tiamat Moloch corvette. I could never destroy it even when in sensor range of the Aquitaine.

[Black Wolf]

Close, but not quite. Damage does slow down massively below 10% for anything with the bigship flag (I thought that was only destroyers and above, but that's not really relevant). But, if you sit there with a rubber band and time compression you can get it below 10% - just never below 1%.

[Klaustrophobia]

it always seemed to me that ALL damage from primaries/missles was severely handicapped, even above 10%.  it really didn't take very long for a few fighters to take down a destroyer in FS1.  it seems in about the same amount of time in FS2, the destroyer would only go down 5-10% in hull integrity.

[High Max]

Yes, the Tiamat was something I could never destroy.

I'm drunk now from wine at home. Took me a bottle to get that. V Day is a bad day. but I never go to bars. Sorry for off topic. Sometimes I do this and get drunk, but not often. I need a good Asian woman from VN or Japan because I have much in common with the average one and such beauty to to boot. Many think I'm good. Very off topic. This liberal forum allows that more without punishment.

Don't misunderstand for me saying that please. Sorry for saying that but I like the feeling of being more open right now someone might put this in their sig. You all know how I feel right now. most here probably experienced this.

and this looks gross. is it real?

[Bob-san]

*Shrug* Rule 34. Or maybe 35.

[Gamma_Draconis]

Here's my take.

Let's assume that the Shivan function similarly to a hive mind, but is still capable of independent thought.

The Lucifier, would be the queen vessel. ALL Shivan ships, including the massive fleets of Sathani obey the Lucifier. In an effort to preserve energy, Shivan vessels are ordered by the Lucifier to disable beam weapons. Afterall, they have been drifting in space and if we treat them as living creatures, they would have an interest in saving their energy. As the queen vessel, this also explains why it is the only ship in existance and that we never see another Lucifier.

After the destruction of the Lucifier, Shivan forces became disorganized. This is the shock phrase. However, Shivan forces across the entire universe have know awoken from the lost of their queen. Energy weapons are reenabled, more advance vessels are awakened from strikecraft to the Sathanas; the Shivan forces begin to actually mobilize.

Now, in FS2, it's agreeable that the Shivans did not perceive the GTVA as a threat. Whereas it would be in the interest of the Lucifier to destroy any possible threats to its existance, the Shivans in FS2 had no queen to protect. Shivan forces probably then reorganized into smaller fleets (small relative to the entire Shivan species).

This is where my theory splits off. Theory A: Shivan forces are mobilizing to kill other Shivan fleets, essentially a civil war. The GTVA is too insignificant and only survives because the Shivan's best interest is removing the next greatest threat, which is no longer the GTVA, but the other Shivan cliques. Theory B: Shivan forces are desperately trying to rebuild the Lucifier. The Sathani fleet is essentially harvesting stars for raw material and making the jump back to the spawning pool of the new Lucifier. Losing a few Sathani is nothing when compared to reestablishing the hive queen. Theory C: Something is disturbing the spawning pool of the new Lucifier. The Sathani are on a direct route back. This theory attempt to explain the present of the Shivan Comm node. I think it's pretty clear that there's something going on with Shivan communication. Theory D: This is really radical, but perhaps the Shivan are not capable of reproducing intelligent life. So they capture someone like Bosch and intend to somehow change him into the Lucifier. Or maybe, the Lucifier was created by the Shivan's creator, but the Shivans themselves, are not capable of recreating it. So they need Bosch's assistance in this.