[iamzack]

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I think the Japanese government should say something like "sure, you can have military bases in Japan--if we can have some in California."

[Black Wolf]

They don't have a choice. They lost the war, this is what they get. Sure, it was a long time ago, but that's irrelevant.

[TESLA]

They don't have a choice. They lost the war, this is what they get. Sure, it was a long time ago, but that's irrelevant.

I think it is relevant. That was a different age, a long long time ago. The land should probably be handed back.

[The E]

Yeah, I think that Japan has outgrown its desire to forcibly take over eastern asia.

[StarSlayer]

Yeah, I think that Japan has outgrown its desire to forcibly take over eastern asia.

I doubt our military presence is there to keep Japan in check, nor has it been for many years   To be fair the city built itself around the base, I would wager due to the economic activity it generates and I would be curious to see how Okinawa's economy would react to the removal of US forces.  I can see how a base full of foreign Leathernecks and their air units would be a pain in the ass but I wonder if they might come to regret having 47 thousand consumers removed from their market. 
Though to be honest I don't think Japan's government is to gun ho to stare down DPRK or an increasingly powerful China without US forces available.  Seems like they are between a rock and a hard place and it will be interesting to see what they decide.

[Fineus]

Eugh, the comments on the actual news article make for some pretty depressing reading. A lot of angry, sarcastic Americans mocking the whole thing. I doubt any of them stopped for a second to consider how they'd feel if the roles were reversed.

I'd say StarSlayer has it right though. The base was probably originally there to flex a bit of muscle in Japan but - and I'm sorry Black Wolf - despite it being the result of US victory over Japan in WW2, times have sure moved on. How long can the US realistically expect to keep a base there without someone saying "Um, isn't enough enough? You aren't punishing the people who did this anymore, you're punishing their sons and daughters".

That seems to be the crucial thing here. Japan has done her time and I'm not surprised that average local civilians don't want the base there. They didn't do anything to deserve it.

[The E]

Yeah, it's really too bad that democracies sometimes do what they want, even if it is not the best, rational decision.

As for staring down China and North Korea, Japan has the technological ability to go from their current state to "Nuke-tipped ICBMs fueled and ready" within a year, at most, if they really wanted to. They won't like doing it, probably, but if they feel that to be necessary, they can.

Also, if the US really wanted a base over there, why not formally ackknowledge Taiwan's independence and establish a base there?

[Sushi]

Though to be honest I don't think Japan's government is to gun ho to stare down DPRK or an increasingly powerful China without US forces available.  Seems like they are between a rock and a hard place and it will be interesting to see what they decide.

Yeah, this is the problem. A US military base is a definite military boon for Japan. It's clear that a lot of Japanese want it gone... but I think a lot of other Japanese want it to stay, or it wouldn't be such a tough decision for the local government. Certainly it's not as simple as "Japan wants us to leave, mean Americans refuse to do so."

Our interest in maintaining forces there isn't there to keep Japan in line... it's to project military power into the far east. The reason we're still in Japan has a lot more to do with North Korea (and to a lesser extent, China and Russia) than it does with Japan.

Furthermore, we're actually there to protect Japan to some degree: their own military is pretty limited, as required by Post-WW2 treaty. In recent years, they've been able to project a bit more power, but with a neighbor like the DPRK, I'm sure the Japanese government appreciates having some backup. But, as the article points out, a lot of the locals are less enthusiastic about the whole thing, making the issue more difficult...

[Sushi]

Also, if the US really wanted a base over there, why not formally acknowledge Taiwan's independence and establish a base there?

Why annoy China by doing that when we already have perfectly good military bases in Japan and Korea?

And, as I already said, this issue is more complicated than "All of Japan wants us out and we refuse to leave." The protesters are going after their own local government, not the Americans.

[The E]

Why annoy China by doing that when we already have perfectly good military bases in Japan and Korea?

And, as I already said, this issue is more complicated than "All of Japan wants us out and we refuse to leave." The protesters are going after their own local government, not the Americans.

Which, you know, is the right place. They are asking their government to act on the expressed will of the people. It's certainly a more rational approach than most other America-Out protests.

[Unknown Target]

I know in Germany that the Germans don't WANT Americans to leave; the bases there are major parts of their economy. I imagine the same is in many Japanese areas.

I'm sure that these people are probably not the majority of the entire country. Still, sounds like they are on Okinawa.

[Fineus]

From the reporting, it sounds like they're the ones immediately around the base - but I could be wrong about that.

The article also mentions them being unhappy with the crime rate etc. in the area, but without knowing all the facts, is that really linked to the military base? If the answer is "yes" then I can sympathise.

[SpardaSon21]

Yes, its probably linked.  A lot of soldiers are young males, and young males do commit a fair amount of crimes, especially after being cooped up in a contained and restrictive environment like a military base.  I'm not surprised there's an elevated crime rate in Okinawa thanks to the presence of the base as our soldiers are probably blowing off steam.

[StarSlayer]

From the reporting, it sounds like they're the ones immediately around the base - but I could be wrong about that.

The article also mentions them being unhappy with the crime rate etc. in the area, but without knowing all the facts, is that really linked to the military base? If the answer is "yes" then I can sympathise.

One of the major issues are the overflights of Marine Air units.  The city is built pretty much around the base and having helicopters and jets rumbling over residential and school areas is PITA.  The military attempts to schedule operations to be the least inconvenient but what they want and what happens isn't exactly the same thing.  Additionally there are reports of occasional ugly incidents between base personnel and the locals.  I don't know if its an abnormally high amount of crime or whether its just highlighted because its foreigners though.

[Rian]

I was on Okinawa five or six years ago, and the US bases take up about a third of the island. It’s true that they contribute strongly to the local economy, but on the other hand they’re noisy, pollute a lot, and contribute to crime. (In particular, I know that there have been some problems with sexual harassment and assault. My exchange program orientation specifically mentioned problems with American soldiers as a potential risk for female students, right up there with getting groped on the subway.)

Okinawa was also hit much harder by the war than the rest of Japan, and as a consequence there’s a strong pacifistic streak to the local culture. I was there for six weeks, and must have visited about five or six different peace museums during that time. One of them was right across the street from an air base, and had exhibits pointing out the effects of noise and air pollution from the jets on the local community. It doesn’t surprise me at all to hear that they’re finally getting sick of it, though I’ll note that Tokyo is nowhere near Okinawa and this protest is probably more than just Okinawans.

[Snail]

Why annoy China by doing that when we already have perfectly good military bases in Japan and Korea?

And, as I already said, this issue is more complicated than "All of Japan wants us out and we refuse to leave." The protesters are going after their own local government, not the Americans.

Which, you know, is the right place. They are asking their government to act on the expressed will of the people. It's certainly a more rational approach than most other America-Out protests.

Acknowledging Taiwan and then putting a military base there is... Umm, kinda silly.


May as well organize a preemptive strike on China while we're at it, eh?

[Kszyhu]

Good idea. After that, world will go M.A.D.

[Rodo]

US is spread to thin... this "world police" objective that they have assigned to their troops is impossible to achieve... and I don't think it's a good idea either.

I'm not even an US citizen, but I do know and believe truly that Japan people have the rights to do whatever they want on their own territory, and if that means booting the US bases then US should listen to their requests.

[Thaeris]

This is a double-edged argument to be sure, though I have to side with the citizens of the region first and foremost.

...In a way, this subject is nothing new to me. I recall our 200-level teacher for AFROTC telling us a story in which he did a rather... interesting report on the subject as an undergraduate (before becoming an officer). Foreign occupation, voluntary or unvoluntary, will always have repurcussions.

[iamzack]

I don't really understand the argument about the bases being good for the economy. Maybe the occupation is good for corporations, but I'd think the average citizen with some amount of patriotism would want the US military out of their homeland. Who's to say a Japanese military base wouldn't be good for the economy of a random city in California? But I don't think anyone would stand for it here.