[Kosh]

There was actually a short story in a recent Time issue that discussed a massive new Chinese housing project that hadn't experienced anywhere near the original anticipated demand.  There were pictures of whole blocks of shiny new houses sitting there completely empty, and a brand-new highway completely empty of cars.  It's a different root cause than what's happened to Detroit, but the result could be the same.

Welcome to the collapse of a real estate bubble.

Thing is even though there was a real estate bubble, there is a real demand for new housing because of urbanization. Where most of the "ghost towning" is happening is in the villages.

The sad part is there are people in China who are beyond what we would consider broke and they're building new cities to sit empty. We might not be the only wasteful country after all.

Those are private land developers who build that stuff (mostly). Economics doesn't work like that.

[Mongoose]

Did they try downscaling the project?  That's the first thing a private contractor would do if demand might not meet the new supply.

I think the point the article was making was that they had just about everything built before the economy dropped out.  There was anticipated demand for all of these new houses, but after they were finished, no one wanted to buy them.  Apparently, if China's housing bubble does a full-fledged burst, it could mean an even longer stint of misery for the global economy as a whole.

Koth, I don't know if you can access the specific article here, but the region it's talking about is the Kangbashi district of Ordos City, Inner Mongolia, if that means anything specific to you.

[Deka1184]

imfromdetroit 

i was fortunate enough to grow up in the suburbs, but now i'm going to college in "the city", and man.... is it depressing.

i cant stand it when people try to infuse a note of positive-ness when talking about detroit. its not only dead, its decomposed to its bones. i can't wait to leave this forsaken state.

[Liberator]

My heart goes out to anyone from Detroit.  It's current state is a splendid example of leadership that was and is poorly equipped on any level to deal with the problems facing that once great city.  As a side note, this is what's going to happen in a lot more cities and towns if you have some dimbulb politician, who's only real interest is in how much power they can accumulate, raise taxes on corporations so that they pay "their fair share" to get the votes of the great unwashed masses. 

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that America is dead over the last few hours, it's only a matter of time before her heart stops beating and the worms burst through the surface of her rotting corpse.  It doesn't matter who's right any more, you guys have won and it's done, the greatest country the world has ever seen will be little more than a memory in 10 or 20 years, and nothing can stop it.

[Nuclear1]

I'm just not even going to bother, because I know you're not going to listen when I tell you GM, Ford, and Chrysler killed Detroit and Flint when they sent all their factories to Mexico and Canada so they could make even more money on top of record profits during the 60s through 90s.

And I know you won't listen to me when I explain to you how badly the 1973 oil embargo affected the muscle car and light truck industry, which was damn near the domestic manufacturers' mainstay for the longest time, and how many people lost jobs there. 

But you will take the opportunity to make a snide reference to how you think the evil liberals destroyed Detroit, and how you think Obama's going to do the same thing to the US.  Congratulations, you've again let rhetoric and your Fox-distorted view of America take place of actual research into the automotive industry and the history of Detroit, and it's still making you look stupid.

[el_magnifico]

My heart goes out to anyone from Detroit.  It's current state is a splendid example of leadership that was and is poorly equipped on any level to deal with the problems facing that once great city.  As a side note, this is what's going to happen in a lot more cities and towns if you have some dimbulb politician, who's only real interest is in how much power they can accumulate, raise taxes on corporations so that they pay "their fair share" to get the votes of the great unwashed masses.  

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that America is dead over the last few hours, it's only a matter of time before her heart stops beating and the worms burst through the surface of her rotting corpse.  It doesn't matter who's right any more, you guys have won and it's done, the greatest country the world has ever seen will be little more than a memory in 10 or 20 years, and nothing can stop it.

"¡Bárbaros! Las ideas no se matan."

"Barbarians! You can't kill ideologies."

-Domingo Faustino Sarmiento.

And may I add, ideologies never die so easily, if ever. There's always going to be communists, capitalists, fascists, monarchists. Countries are nothing but particular instances of ideologies in this case, and they will come and go with history. That's why you have to fight with your brains. Land is just... well... land. Don't get yourself tied to it.

That being said, you know perfectly I don't always agree with you, and I'm not sure ideological fundamentalism is a good thing. But don't get depressed, some day there will be capitalism in Cuba.

[Kosh]

My heart goes out to anyone from Detroit.  It's current state is a splendid example of leadership that was and is poorly equipped on any level to deal with the problems facing that once great city.  As a side note, this is what's going to happen in a lot more cities and towns if you have some dimbulb politician, who's only real interest is in how much power they can accumulate, raise taxes on corporations so that they pay "their fair share" to get the votes of the great unwashed masses. 

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that America is dead over the last few hours, it's only a matter of time before her heart stops beating and the worms burst through the surface of her rotting corpse.  It doesn't matter who's right any more, you guys have won and it's done, the greatest country the world has ever seen will be little more than a memory in 10 or 20 years, and nothing can stop it.

So what are you planning to do? Make a run for the border?

[Liberator]

Heh, if I thought there was someplace better I might consider it, but the whole damn planet isn't far behind.  I'm not saying stone age, but a total global economic collapse is imminent.  The gods damned politicians, may Satan take they're eyes, have fudged the numbers too long and too large.  It's not capitalism or socialism that has failed(well, socialism did in the form of Communist USSR, but that's neither here nor there) we have failed because we put too much power in too few hands and didn't prepare well enough ahead of time to take it back and give it to other less corrupted hands.  The whole system is rotted down to the local level and there's no way to clean it, the patient wouldn't survive the process.

I've come to the conclusion that the reason I'm always apart from everyone else is that I don't see things the same way.  Everyone seems to be out for themselves and damn anyone who gets in their way.  I'm not like that.  I'm not saying I pick up hitch hikers(freaky, freaky dangerous), but no one seems to care that the Government is corrupt down to the last congressional page and document runner.  None of them are bad people necessarily, but what they want and do is not what is good for the country or the people they are supposed to be leading.  In the case of Ms. Pelosi, she has an 11% approval rating, her running buddy, Mr. Reid is 9%.  How can they possibly claim to represent they're whole district if 89 to 91% of they constituents don't like what they're doing?  But I bet they get reelected.  Because better the devil you know, than the devil you don't.

I'm tired.  Tired of all the yelling, tired of all the crying, tired of being told I'm a bad person because I don't want my country to be bankrupt and owing money to the damned Chinese or the Russians or whoever for the next 3 generations to pay for this generations unmitigated stupidity and narcissism. 

I don't want dirty air, water or soil.  I don't want people to be sick and not get the care they need when they need it.  I don't want a lot of things you all claim I do. 

No one cares about what's right or wrong any more.  Legality be damned.  We've fallen because almost no one has any care for what is ethical and what is moral.  And those that do, are ridiculed and made fun of.  We're damned, every last one of us.

[Bobboau]

(most) everyone is doing what they think is right, from the rich business owner to the socialist leaning politician, the real tragedy is that almost everyone thinks they are doing whats best but no one wants to believe it. it's easier and more fun to play conspiracy theory.

[Spicious]

http://theinternetguy.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/george-carlin-on-politicians-the-republican-democrat-divide/

Edit: Found a video.

[Kosh]

I don't want people to be sick and not get the care they need when they need it.

Then why oppose legislation that would have done exactly that?

Heh, if I thought there was someplace better I might consider it, but the whole damn planet isn't far behind.  I'm not saying stone age, but a total global economic collapse is imminent.  The gods damned politicians, may Satan take they're eyes, have fudged the numbers too long and too large.  It's not capitalism or socialism that has failed(well, socialism did in the form of Communist USSR, but that's neither here nor there) we have failed because we put too much power in too few hands and didn't prepare well enough ahead of time to take it back and give it to other less corrupted hands.  The whole system is rotted down to the local level and there's no way to clean it, the patient wouldn't survive the process.

The problem is our campaign financing system and special interests. All attempts to clean it up have failed, and it will just hurt us more in the long run.

I've come to the conclusion that the reason I'm always apart from everyone else is that I don't see things the same way.

To be honest I kind of doubt that, almost everything I have seen coming from you sounds like sound bites off of some motor mouth on Fox. Do yourself a favor, turn off the TV, and go to the library. Just learn.

I'm tired.  Tired of all the yelling, tired of all the crying, tired of being told I'm a bad person because I don't want my country to be bankrupt and owing money to the damned Chinese or the Russians or whoever for the next 3 generations to pay for this generations unmitigated stupidity and narcissism. 

We've been on this path for 30 years and 4 presidents, not including our current one and 3 of them were Republicans. There's been only one time that we've run a budget surplus, and that was during a Democratic administration. IIRC, I do think you voted for Bush, who did more to expand government than any other president since LBJ at least once. It seems to me that kind of makes you part of the problem. Maybe you learned, who did you vote for in the last election?

None of them are bad people necessarily, but what they want and do is not what is good for the country or the people they are supposed to be leading.  In the case of Ms. Pelosi, she has an 11% approval rating, her running buddy, Mr. Reid is 9%.  How can they possibly claim to represent they're whole district if 89 to 91% of they constituents don't like what they're doing?  But I bet they get reelected.  Because better the devil you know, than the devil you don't.

This is the problem with our system the way it is, instead of having one set of brainwashed party drones we have two, who keep voting for anyone who has a d or an r next to their name depending on their affiliation. Third party candidates are generally squeezed out by our financing system and the media.

No one cares about what's right or wrong any more.

In many ways that isn't really true. 50 years ago it wasn't wrong in the south to lynch black people, now we think it is. 100 years ago children working in dirty and dangerous factories wasn't considered wrong either, now thanks to the unions we do. I'd say we've actually made some progress, though there is much to be done.

[General Battuta]

*snip*

Actually, the government today is way less corrupt than it was in the 1800s and early 20th century.

If the world is on the verge of falling apart, why is the global economy so much stronger than it's ever been? Why are standards of living up, wars down, and civil rights generally improved?

[Blue Lion]

*snip*

Actually, the government today is way less corrupt than it was in the 1800s and early 20th century.

If the world is on the verge of falling apart, why is the global economy so much stronger than it's ever been? Why are standards of living up, wars down, and civil rights generally improved?

I'm not sure, but you have to admit, it was a pretty good "We're doooooomed" speech.

[Nuclear1]

See this is where I'm confused...Liberator just expressed everything I think is wrong with the US but we've 180 opposite each other for a while.

Lib, we really want the same things...you're just letting the wrong people tell you what's best for the country.  Fox isn't looking out for you.  The Republican Party isn't looking out for you.  In fact, you've been outright opposes to the only folks that are trying to look out for you, because some fat cat commentator told you he was a bad guy. 

[swashmebuckle]

In the case of Ms. Pelosi, she has an 11% approval rating, her running buddy, Mr. Reid is 9%.  How can they possibly claim to represent they're whole district if 89 to 91% of they constituents don't like what they're doing?  But I bet they get reelected.  Because better the devil you know, than the devil you don't.

I'm assuming those approval ratings are national figures, because when it comes to her actual constituents in the CA 8th district Pelosi is actually really solid.  Her positions are pretty well in line with the local majority opinions and she routinely obliterates the competition in elections by 4:1 margins.  She might actually be more popular now than ever thanks to her leading role in the healthcare bill, even though it isn't what she or most San Franciscans wanted in terms of a strong public option, etc.  Seems the same isn't the case for Reid, but who knows, maybe there's enough people in Nevada with pre-existing conditions who will now be able to survive until November to tip it for him

[SpardaSon21]

I swear, having someone like Pelosi and her too-tight Botoxed face be from the same state as me... *shudder*  My damn state's also responsible for Boxer, Feinstein, and Moonbeam Jerry Brown who with his no-new-infrastructure policies as governor is responsible for our state's current gridlock, and likes the oppressive laws preventing new housing that Marin County has and thinks the rest of the state should follow suit.

And yeah, I'm from the other, non-insane California.  Yes, there are two Californias.  The coast from LA County on up is blue, and the coast south of LA and pretty much everything inland is red.

And no offense Nuclear, but I don't feel Obama is looking out for me, not when he's letting his half-brother in Kenya live on less than a dollar a month.  Unless of course that man's position has improved due to his half-brother helping him out since then, but I doubt it.

[General Battuta]

I thought you were against government handouts, SpardaSon.

Why is it Obama's job to take care of his half-brother? I don't think you'd hold a normal citizen responsible for subsidizing his unfortunate half-sibling; in fact you'd probably accuse the guy of being a leech. My own parents have been quite principled about staying out of the affairs of their siblings, who are all troubled in various legal, economic, and mental ways.

If the president were helping him out, I'm sure there'd be an outcry over nepotism unbecoming to his office. How the hell would it look if the President of the United States bailed out his half-brother, rather than doing something for the millions of others who suffer in a similar situation? That's something I'd expect from a South American junta.

What an absurd accusation to sink to.

[SpardaSon21]

No, I'm not against private charity at all.  If you want to donate money to feed the poor, that's great.  I'm not going to stop someone from doing what he wants with his money as long as he isn't hiring hitmen and funding extortion and fraud schemes with it.  What I am against is forced redistribution of wealth, and the government manages to do little with what it takes.  Most of that talks about how "poor" American poor really are, but there are some lovely tidbits about what the government has managed to accomplish with its trillions of dollars in spending on its War on Poverty.

And GB, the irony of the situation is we Obama telling us we all have to look out for each other and how we're all in this together, and yet we have him ignoring his half-brother and letting him barely get by all while he harangues us about how greedy and selfish we are, despite America being the most charitable nation in the world.  Obama could easily send his half-brother a few hundred dollars every two weeks if he wanted since the President makes at least $200,000, but he would rather talk about American greed and selfishness.

[Scotty]

You're still not answering why he should.  It's his half-brother from a father he barely ever knew.  Might as well be a step-brother from a step-father that came into the family after he left the house, for how close they are.

[General Battuta]

Right. If I were in his situation I don't think I'd be doing much for him. He's as much a stranger to me as every other guy in the area.