[Klaustrophobia]

that brings up another gripe for me.  missles in FS are just generally poor IMO.  tiny range, slow, and bad accuracy.  i don't think the fighters should EVER be able to outrun a missle.  dodging is a bit too easy when every human pilot can do it with 100% effectiveness.

[Iranon]

Cluster 1: Abandoning perfectly good craft.

The Hercules MkII is a good functional replacement despite different classifications, but I prefer the Athena. Faster, even better gun placements, copious afterburner reserves.

The Valkyrie embodied speed and precision like no other craft and was a joy to fly. To put it in perspective, the speed advantage over a Perseus is considerable bigger than the speed advantage of the Perseus over an Erinyes.

Terrans spend a lot of time and effort to build a Harbinger-compatible heavy bomber with a Banshee turret. Vasudans... had a Harbinger-compatible heavy bomber with 2 Banshee turrets all along... and they retire it.



Cluster 2: Abandoning perfectly good weapons.

The Avenger was an excellent general purpose weapon. A slight bias towards hull damage but still better against shields than the Subach, accurate, efficient.

The Flail and Shield Breaker were excellent complements to the Avenger (which took care of the hull damage), being far more efficient than their successors. 4 Avengers + 2 Flails is an excellent combination, and one that I'd often prefer to anything available in Freespace 2.

The Prometheus R is a useless piece of junk, which is especially annoying when it's forced on you. Retaining the Avenger turret in the Medusa would have been nice. The Osiris, while never a good bomber, would at least remain a respectable gunship with 2 Prometheus turrets.

Helios bombs may be more destructive, but in most anti-destroyer engagements I'd rather have Harbingers because of the performance against subsystems.



Cluster 3: Introducing the strangest new designs

The Myrmidon is a flexible if a little awkward craft... it can fill any fighter role except the one it's built for (too clumsy for a space superiority fighter). The weapons placement is unforgivable on the Artemis, and the Boanerges

The Vasudans are badly in need of a light craft that isn't unreasonably fragile. The Ulysses was supposed to be a joined project and would have been a very useful addition to them. Calling the Serapis an 'Advanced Interceptor' is a joke: it's too slow and can't carry Trebuchets. I like the nimble little thing but again, not suited to its supposed role.

[TrashMan]

I'm guessing that FS1 tables and FS2 tables aren't directly comparable.

I guess [V] could have created FS2 tables based off FS1 tables with continuitiy and scale in mind, but why would they?
In other words, FS2 craft and weapons are supposed to have higher stats than FS1 ones...

Hmm...anyone compare the Herc from FS2 and Herc from FS1? Are the stats the same?

[headdie]

Cluster 1: Abandoning perfectly good craft.

The Hercules MkII is a good functional replacement despite different classifications, but I prefer the Athena. Faster, even better gun placements, copious afterburner reserves.

the herc II officialy replaces the origial in the same role ingame and the cut in primary firepower reduces survivability in my oppinion, in a ship which relies on quickly nailiing its target before it esscapes an missiles being unreliable the drop in primarys is inexcusable.

The Valkyrie embodied speed and precision like no other craft and was a joy to fly. To put it in perspective, the speed advantage over a Perseus is considerable bigger than the speed advantage of the Perseus over an Erinyes.

but the Valkyrie was also more fragile, dont get me wrong i lioved the valk but in a heated battle the Perseus is more likely to survive against its piers than the valk against fs1 opposition

Terrans spend a lot of time and effort to build a Harbinger-compatible heavy bomber with a Banshee turret. Vasudans... had a Harbinger-compatible heavy bomber with 2 Banshee turrets all along... and they retire it.

yep there were a lot of plot and balance decisions between 1 and 2 that didnt make sence in plot terms but then we were never told plot wise why certain things were dropped or changed and others wernt.

Cluster 2: Abandoning perfectly good weapons.

The Avenger was an excellent general purpose weapon. A slight bias towards hull damage but still better against shields than the Subach, accurate, efficient.

The Flail and Shield Breaker were excellent complements to the Avenger (which took care of the hull damage), being far more efficient than their successors. 4 Avengers + 2 Flails is an excellent combination, and one that I'd often prefer to anything available in Freespace 2.

The Prometheus R is a useless piece of junk, which is especially annoying when it's forced on you. Retaining the Avenger turret in the Medusa would have been nice. The Osiris, while never a good bomber, would at least remain a respectable gunship with 2 Prometheus turrets.

see my previous comment

Helios bombs may be more destructive, but in most anti-destroyer engagements I'd rather have Harbingers because of the performance against subsystems.

I never noticed tbh

Cluster 3: Introducing the strangest new designs

The Myrmidon is a flexible if a little awkward craft... it can fill any fighter role except the one it's built for (too clumsy for a space superiority fighter). The weapons placement is unforgivable on the Artemis, and the Boanerges

yes the myrm is a strange craft, and as for bomber weapon placment every playerble bomber in either game baring the athena and zeuse sufferes from iffy weapons placment

The Vasudans are badly in need of a light craft that isn't unreasonably fragile. The Ulysses was supposed to be a joined project and would have been a very useful addition to them. Calling the Serapis an 'Advanced Interceptor' is a joke: it's too slow and can't carry Trebuchets. I like the nimble little thing but again, not suited to its supposed role.

Serapis is balanced along Perseus imho

[Androgeos Exeunt]

The enemy AI's incredible knack for spreading fire so that no matter where you turn, you will be pounded and thus be unable to see worth crap nor turn fast enough to escape unless you mash your afterburners for at least 4 seconds, which however will not give you enough distance to turn and face your foe - he will resume pounding within a half second of you letting off the burners.

You will die, then, if you attempt to even try Fury's AI.

[Commander Zane]

that brings up another gripe for me.  missles in FS are just generally poor IMO.  tiny range, slow, and bad accuracy.  i don't think the fighters should EVER be able to outrun a missle.  dodging is a bit too easy when every human pilot can do it with 100% effectiveness.

I was talking about Interceptor fighter classes rather than missiles, but at seeing this I have to call bull****, I can launch ten countermeasures and weave and turn like a druken maniac at full burn and STILL not dodge a ****ing missile, when all the AI does is drop a single countermeasure and barely banks to the left, like five ****ing degrees.

[General Battuta]

that brings up another gripe for me.  missles in FS are just generally poor IMO.  tiny range, slow, and bad accuracy.  i don't think the fighters should EVER be able to outrun a missle.  dodging is a bit too easy when every human pilot can do it with 100% effectiveness.

I was talking about Interceptor fighter classes rather than missiles, but at seeing this I have to call bull****, I can launch ten countermeasures and weave and turn like a druken maniac at full burn and STILL not dodge a ****ing missile, when all the AI does is drop a single countermeasure and barely banks to the left, like five ****ing degrees.

Your timing's probably off. Just drop one and break hard right before impact.

[Commander Zane]

Surely it can't be off for over 500 missile strikes, I do pay attention to the icons and warning tones.

[General Battuta]

Surely it can't be off for over 500 missile strikes, I do pay attention to the icons and warning tones.

Man, the weirdest stuff happens with your install.

[Fury]

Question to Commander Zane, does this happen on 3.6.10?

[Commander Zane]

3.6.12 RC2, though it felt like it was the same on 3.6.11 builds and 3.6.10.

[Fury]

Well, here's news for you. There was a years old bug in countermeasures that made them 100% effective, was fixed in .11 nightlies. If you had same difficulties in .10 though, then I would start looking into the mirror and ask "wtf I'm doing wrong".

[Klaustrophobia]

CM didn't seem 100% effective for the player ever.  higher than it should have been yes, but i've had to launch multiples to get rid of incoming missles.  the AI on the other hand....  launch a CM anywhere, it doesn't fking matter, and the missle goes ballistic.  THAT is the single greatest missle thing that bugs me.

[General Battuta]

Pretty sure player and AI CMs work the same way.

[The E]

Note that 100% effective does NOT mean "Will distract all incoming missiles". It means that, if the missile's seeker cone intersects with the CM's area of effect, the missile will get distracted. Obviously, it's possible for players to dodge the wrong way and thus get no benefit from a CM whatsoever.

In other words, CMs work as designed, you're just using them wrong.

[Paladin327]

Quote from: Klaustrophobia on April 20, 2010, 01:48:13 pm
that brings up another gripe for me.  missles in FS are just generally poor IMO.  tiny range, slow, and bad accuracy.  i don't think the fighters should EVER be able to outrun a missle.  dodging is a bit too easy when every human pilot can do it with 100% effectiveness.

I was talking about Interceptor fighter classes rather than missiles, but at seeing this I have to call bull****, I can launch ten countermeasures and weave and turn like a druken maniac at full burn and STILL not dodge a ****ing missile, when all the AI does is drop a single countermeasure and barely banks to the left, like five ****ing degrees

he's listing lazily to the left! left left!

anyway, i like the tauret, its a good ship and find that its primaries are decently placed and i never noticed its energy reserves getting depleted too fast,, and the cavernous missile banks that can hold 26 trebs total are handy when dealing with bigger ships, it turns a bit slow, yes, but otherwise, its a good ship

[Klaustrophobia]

the tauret is a good missle spamming platform, but i don't like getting into a furball with one.

[Droid803]

I wouldn't get into a furball with any vasudan fighter.
They're made of paper.

[Commander Zane]

I just got killed for being 250 meters behind a firing beam cannon, so it was pointing in the complete opposite direction of where I was, and I die.
At least this code's being changed back so this stupidity stops.

Oh, here's another gem, ships like the Colossus firing their beam cannons at FIGHTERS and BOMBERS instead of that capital ship sitting just next to it pounding it away.

Also forgot this one, drives me off the ****ing wall every time, when bombers like the Seraphim are intercepting ALL THE FIGHTERS in the entire ****ing sector.

[General Battuta]

Beam radius and the corresponding surprise kills have indeed been fixed, at least on Blue Planet and presumably in the MediaVPs as well. I don't know if it was a code issue or a table issue.

However, warships really shouldn't  fire their beam cannons at fighters and bombers under almost any circumstance, unless something's wrong.

Your bombers probably have dynamic goals enabled.