[Timerlane]

linking cannons of the same type when one is a quad slot does LESS damage per second than just using the quad slot alone.

There's no way the fire-rate penalty is half; that would mean there's no difference between an Erinyes firing one bank of the same primary or two, and there's no way I'll buy that. I did some of my own "stare at a watch and listen-count the shots" and it was closer to a 1/3 reduction.

It's not that huge, IMO. The Erinyes' incredible "limo-ness" is a bigger liability than the Myrm's general chunkiness. If you catch an Erinyes by the side, top or bottom, it takes almost no deflection shooting skill to hit that thing(I suspect that's part of the art of using it in MP).

The lack of Maxim is a point against it, yes. I'd rather take it over most four gun ships when Akhetons are necessary(disabling fighters). I also find complaints about primary placement interesting when the Erinyes has a pretty similar offset, but biased below the reticle rather than above it(a trait it also shares with the Mara, and yet no one seems to comment on that).

Could it better? Certainly, but for me, Derelict became so much simpler once I started using the Myrmidon almost exclusively(when it was available). I also think harder difficulty levels make the ability to quickly take down enemy fighters(and especially their shields) even more valuable.

[Klaustrophobia]

i'm basing that claim off of seeing more than one person who know their way around the tables say it.  if it's wrong, sorry.  i wouldn't have thought so either, but i've been wrong about plenty of stuff in FS.

[ChronoReverse]

Interestingly enough, if you have a 2+4 bank like in the Myrmidon, your DPS is the same between linked fire and just the quad fire IF and only if linked fire rate is precisely 2/3.

Does anyone know for certain what the linked fire rate is?

[QuantumDelta]

linking cannons of the same type when one is a quad slot does LESS damage per second than just using the quad slot alone.

There's no way the fire-rate penalty is half; that would mean there's no difference between an Erinyes firing one bank of the same primary or two, and there's no way I'll buy that. I did some of my own "stare at a watch and listen-count the shots" and it was closer to a 1/3 reduction.

It's not that huge, IMO. The Erinyes' incredible "limo-ness" is a bigger liability than the Myrm's general chunkiness. If you catch an Erinyes by the side, top or bottom, it takes almost no deflection shooting skill to hit that thing(I suspect that's part of the art of using it in MP).

The lack of Maxim is a point against it, yes. I'd rather take it over most four gun ships when Akhetons are necessary(disabling fighters). I also find complaints about primary placement interesting when the Erinyes has a pretty similar offset, but biased below the reticle rather than above it(a trait it also shares with the Mara, and yet no one seems to comment on that).

Could it better? Certainly, but for me, Derelict became so much simpler once I started using the Myrmidon almost exclusively(when it was available). I also think harder difficulty levels make the ability to quickly take down enemy fighters(and especially their shields) even more valuable.

The ship, is huge.
No idea on linked fire, I always assumed it was half (*which, in any other ship than the myrm would STILL be an advantage).

I have no problem with the primary placement, I don't even mind the URSAs primary placement, primaries are not a problem.
Primary placement combined with HORRIBLE missile placement, however, I have a major problem with.
And the myrms is *terrible*

[MatthTheGeek]

Not as terrible as the Apollo's if you ask me.

[Scotty]

The ship, is huge.
No idea on linked fire, I always assumed it was half (*which, in any other ship than the myrm would STILL be an advantage).

I have no problem with the primary placement, I don't even mind the URSAs primary placement, primaries are not a problem.
Primary placement combined with HORRIBLE missile placement, however, I have a major problem with.
And the myrms is *terrible*

If by huge, you mean the same size as two thirds of the ships on that picture, width wise.  It's significantly thinner than half of the ones the same size as it too.

Anyone ever try to switch primary banks to time it so that you have both banks firing opposite each other?  With Subachs, it gets pretty easy to hit anything you're aiming at, just by sheer volume of fire.  With the Myrm, it gets a 1-2 hit that's a little more effective at punching through shields because you're more likely to hit the same shield quadrant more often in the reticle.

[Fury]

Does anyone know for certain what the linked fire rate is?

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ai_profiles.tbl#.24disable_linked_fire_penalty:

Normally, the rate of fire is divided by the number of linked guns.

[Timerlane]

I'll point out that those two spines on the back of the Myrm are actually pretty skinny until they reach the back of the engines(about where the back of the center 'fuselage' reaches), so to the scale there, it's "really" barely over one square long. It's chunky, but still not too bad in profile.

I find when shooting at them, the high hull rating combined with decent speed just seems to make them not want to die quickly. It's not a hard kill per se, but not a stupidly easy one, either.

Primary placement combined with HORRIBLE missile placement, however, I have a major problem with.
And the myrms is *terrible*

Yeah, I admit the only really good missile firing points are the large bank(meaning if you bring paired Helios, you choose less optimal missile points for whatever else), whereas the Mara's are excellently aligned with the guns.

Normally, the rate of fire is divided by the number of linked guns.

With all due respect, linked banks/gun systems, maybe? I played with esarai's stock Kvasir with three banks of Prom-S(2/2/2), and there's no way that's the same fire rate as the Myrm(2/4). Triple-linked banks are absolutely painful in terms of RoF, and I'd buy half-rate(or worse) for those.

EDIT: removed redundant 'just'.

[ChronoReverse]

Well, in terms of up-close dogfighting, turn-rate is too important and the Myrmidon will definitely get owned there.


As for linked banks, I just did some empirical testing and linked fire is definitely not 1/2 the firing rate:

With a single dual bank of Prom S I took down about 21% damage in 20 seconds whereas linking 2+2 did 30% damage in 20 seconds.

With a single dual bank of Subach I took down about 38% damage in 40 seconds whereas linking 2+2 did 50% damage in 40 seconds.

With true quad bank of Subach I took down 67% in 40 seconds (hmm, not quite 2x of a dual bank but more than a 2+2) while a 2+4 bank did 78% damage in 40 seconds.

[jr2]

hmm... how about using that hold-fire down whilst switching linked fire mode?  although that's probably in the class of retail bug, not design feature. 

[Qent]

I'm sure that it's 2/3 as fast for two linked banks and 1/2 as fast for three linked banks (in unmodded FS2 found only on the Seraphim), because that's important when tabling fighter-mounted beams.

Now I just have to find the poster who said that.

EDIT: Or multiply the refire delay by 1 + (NumberOfLinkedBanks - 1) * 0.5 according to a very very old code snippet, although I doubt it's changed since.

[Vrets]

I used to like the Myrmidon until I started playing on Insane difficulty.

This ship just can't hack it. Those punk lokis can fly circles around me.

[ChronoReverse]

Pack some tempests and blow them away.  Literally takes only a second each and makes those early missions where you have to use the Myrmidon a breeze =)

[Paladin327]

the myrm would be soooooooooooooo much better if it could use the harpoon, the premiere mid-range dogfight missile, but no, it cant. wtf?

[headdie]

the myrm would be soooooooooooooo much better if it could use the harpoon, the premiere mid-range dogfight missile, but no, it cant. wtf?

try http://www.mediafire.com/?2ajznzm2mdw
also here are a few other alterations i cooked up a while ago http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67235.msg1334702#msg1334702

[Androgeos Exeunt]

The ship, is huge.

I was about to point out that the Myrmidon is smaller than the Serapis, when I remembered that the Serapis is also much thinner and more agile.

I've never remembered seeing this picture before, but now that I am, I'm pretty surprised that the entire Herc family is smaller than the Myrmidon.

I also wonder how the Shivans are able to fit into a Dragon.

[Timerlane]

I was about to point out that the Myrmidon is smaller than the Serapis, when I remembered that the Serapis is also much thinner and more agile.

It also has half the shielding.

I'd also say the Hercs are all so chunky as to be nearly round. The Myrm would be perceived as vaguely flat(well, sort of awkwardly arched; there are still the humps on all the weapon 'pods', making it look big for no apparent reason), if not for the cockpit pod and the backwards-facing hook hanging down in the front. Just look at how much ship there isn't(in the middle) when viewed from slightly below.

Second the comment on the Dragon. Either they curl into a little ball, or they somehow stretch out their arms into the wings, or some combination thereof.

Lack of Harpoon, while not a dealbreaker, IMO, does hurt its ability to make use of the small missile banks somewhat. It is odd/amusing that it can carry the Harpoon D.

One benefit of the tiny banks that I did forget about, is the relatively quick reload with the Hornet/Tornado. Since all banks fill simultaneously, it would take about half as long to reload the tiny banks with Tornadoes on a Myrm(assuming the large bank has Tempests, Helios, Trebs, Stiletto IIs, or hasn't been emptied yet) as on a Perseus(or other 40-Hornet missile bay).

The main FS2 campaign really doesn't help the Myrm at all, denying you the Tornado(and thus any usable/compatible anti-fighter aspect seekers) and the Prom-S until you're with the 64th Raptors, then you get shipped out to the Psamtik a few missions later, and when you finally get back to the Aquitaine, you've got the nice, shiny, 8-gun Erinyes, that largely outclasses the Myrm in just about every way(and most likely, the sickeningly durable, destruction-spewing Ares), waiting for you.

[Sushi]

I also wonder how the Shivans are able to fit into a Dragon.

Relative lengths:
F-16: 15m
SF Dragon: 12.6m
Colonial Raptor: 8.53m
Colonial Viper mkVII: 9.8m
GTF Hercules: 20m

In other words, the Dragon isn't THAT small. Most FS fighters are just quite large.

If I ever make a new version of the Velocity Mod, it will work by shrinking all of the fighters so that they seem faster and combat moves more quickly, while minimizing the effect on mission balance.

[Thaeris]

In other words, the Dragon isn't THAT small. Most FS fighters are just quite large.

Which is refreshing. Most science fiction (eg. Star Wars, BSG) makes their fighters much too small. FS at least has larger craft which are thus much more believeable in terms of size. Unfortunately, the engine-to-center-of-mass relationship is often sorely lacking...

[Timerlane]

The question, though, is does a Shivan fit comfortably in there? If the below render is supposed to be to scale, then the Shivan's leg is the about the length of the Vasudan, which I'd guess is around 3m?(clearly taller than the Marine, even if he/she's not standing up straight). That Shivan looks fairly hunched over as it is, and still reaches over the Vasudan's head with its upper claws.

It looks possible, I guess(depending on how exactly a Shivan would sit/lie down/? in its cockpit), but pretty tight, considering engines, reactor, and other electronics have to fit in there, too.

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