[Bob-san]

I think the main concern of the GTVA in the nebula was preservation of information. They would assume that an Orion against a Lucifer would result in the Orion being destroyed before it could fleet, especially if they were surprised. The Colossus, however, would be able to survive almost anything. Even if it was crippled, the Big C would survive at least long enough to inform the rest of the GTVA about the situation. As it was, the GTVA found a lot of useful information thanks to GammaDrax and the nebula. The discovery and the studying of the Knossos device and then further being able to make an insurrection into Shivan space brought back a lot of information.

[Paladin327]

however, overcommiting the colossus would have the benefit of the shivans thinking there were multiple colossus class vessels roaming around which could make the shivans panic and possibly make mistakes. GTVA command hat a plan to throw the GVD Psamtik, GVD Toeris, and the GTD Aquatane at the sathasas, so the GTVA believed that 3 heavy hitting destroyers can take down the sathanas. if the stay in its rear firing arc, they have a chance.

[Dilmah G]

But if the Shivans had engaged the Colossus, they would very quickly have found that the Colossus does not have the firepower to take on a Sathanas toe-to-toe. They might even have started pairing Sathanas' juggs for mutual protection against SEAD and Strike operations against its flak cannons and forward beam turrets respectively.

And doesn't the Sath have a lone beam turret on its aft section, to deter aft attacks? An attack from its blind-spot only works when the Sath skipper decides not to slam the brakes and turn that beast around.

[Hades]

I don't think you know how long it takes a Sathanas to turn around. It takes a very ****ing long time, and the ship attacking it can easily maneuver to counteract the Sathanas turning.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Well, all it has to do is stay directly above the Sathanas.

[General Battuta]

I don't think you know how long it takes a Sathanas to turn around. It takes a very ****ing long time, and the ship attacking it can easily maneuver to counteract the Sathanas turning.

Really? I don't think I can picture that being pulled off.

What's the Sathanas' rot time?

[Hades]

Well, all it has to do is stay directly above the Sathanas.

The Sathanas can turn upwards too, you know. It doesn't really matter too much if you're above, below, to the side, etc as long as you aren't near the front.

[Bob-san]

But if the Shivans had engaged the Colossus, they would very quickly have found that the Colossus does not have the firepower to take on a Sathanas toe-to-toe. They might even have started pairing Sathanas' juggs for mutual protection against SEAD and Strike operations against its flak cannons and forward beam turrets respectively.

And doesn't the Sath have a lone beam turret on its aft section, to deter aft attacks? An attack from its blind-spot only works when the Sath skipper decides not to slam the brakes and turn that beast around.

The way I see it, ships should typically take the same amount of time to turn as they do to move forward. So, a Sathanas would take about 10 minutes 30 seconds to make a complete 360 if they're at a stop. In actual maneuvering and not using AI stupidity, is it plausible that three destroyers outside your main weapon's firing arcs can pose enough of a threat that your best hope is to flee? Not to mention if the destroyers keep moving; it may be very difficult to get any of the three into the main beams' firing arcs, and exposing the rear beam may further jeopardize the Sathanas' fighter bay and engine systems.

[Hades]

I don't think you know how long it takes a Sathanas to turn around. It takes a very ****ing long time, and the ship attacking it can easily maneuver to counteract the Sathanas turning.

Really? I don't think I can picture that being pulled off.

What's the Sathanas' rot time?

200 for all. But remember in High Noon, after the two juggernauts start circling, the Sathanas never faces the Colossus again and vice versa, they continue to have their sides facing towards each other.

[Dilmah G]

The way I see it, ships should typically take the same amount of time to turn as they do to move forward. So, a Sathanas would take about 10 minutes 30 seconds to make a complete 360 if they're at a stop. In actual maneuvering and not using AI stupidity, is it plausible that three destroyers outside your main weapon's firing arcs can pose enough of a threat that your best hope is to flee? Not to mention if the destroyers keep moving; it may be very difficult to get any of the three into the main beams' firing arcs, and exposing the rear beam may further jeopardize the Sathanas' fighter bay and engine systems.

Mmm, fair enough. I guess your best bet is to overwhelm the Juggernaught very quickly. E.g, jump your destroyers in, concurrent with your bomber squadron on strike + SEAD on beams/flak turrets, in addition to a fighter squadron or two to keep the jugg's fighters busy.

If the juggernaught tries to turn, have the destroyers keep in formation as best possible (since the Sath would have to make a 180 arc, rather than yawing), and you should have it covered.

-> Now the Sath's only option is to sortie fighters and bombers to occupy the destroyers, whilst calling in help. So therefore, a concurrent assault at another point in system would be necessary to draw heat off (preferably a crucial target to the Shivans, jump node, perhaps?)

It'd be damn heavy on fleet resources (would probably require the help of another fleet), but it would get the job done. The prospect of multiple Sathanii is really quite overwhelming, I don't believe there's anything but a Meson warhead that would be suitable.

[S-99]

What's on the underside of a sathanas?

[Klaustrophobia]

a lot of blobs/AAA/flak i believe.

[BengalTiger]

Great way to drive up the economy in post fs2. That'd provide a lot of jobs.

A better way of giving jobs would be to make installations for trade, mining asteroids and perhaps shipbuilding and industry. That might be a reason why it took 20 years to build the Big 'C'- the GTVA simply didn't invest enough cash to get it done quicker because they had other things to focus on.

which could make the shivans panic and possibly make mistakes.

We don't really know if the Shivans feel anything. We do know that they made mistakes after the Lucy was KIA'd.

[Paladin327]

A better way of giving jobs would be to make installations for trade, mining asteroids and perhaps shipbuilding and industry. That might be a reason why it took 20 years to build the Big 'C'- the GTVA simply didn't invest enough cash to get it done quicker because they had other things to focus on.

the 20 years it took could also stem from the reconstruction and the loss of the economic powerhouse of sol

[The E]

Yeah. It took them twenty years because they needed to build all the infrastructure and do all the research necessary first. I mean, they probably started off with a requirement as vague as "We need a ship that can defeat a Lucifer in one-on-one combat".

[IronForge]

About turning the sath... it takes a really long time. The collosus may have some trouble matching, but something smaller and more agile can evade/tank the beams while staying at the blind spot. Or, thats where alpha wing comes in. Kill the beam, colly comes in, pwns from blind spot.
But what I feel will be a better strategy would be 2 orions, both firing a beam at the single rear beam cannon. Likely the rear beam cannon will cripple or even destroy one orion. This will of course only work if the rest of the system is secure-ish and the sath can't call in the other 80 saths to come help.

As the sath turns the orion will move around it. The orion will be orbiting the sath, staying at its back and firing its beam cannon, cripping its engines. Then, it can slowly break the sath's tank.

[General Battuta]

Yeah, until the Sath warps out.

[bigchunk1]

Yeah. It took them twenty years because they needed to build all the infrastructure and do all the research necessary first. I mean, they probably started off with a requirement as vague as "We need a ship that can defeat a Lucifer in one-on-one combat".

I thought the big issue with the Lucifer was that it was shielded. How can the Colossus deal with a shielded destroyer that was supposedly 'impervious' outside of subspace. You would think that the GTVA would further develop inter-subspace combat tactics instead of a super ship.

Unless beam cannons somehow overwhelm the Lucifer's shields. Beam cannons go a long way from laser turrets.   

[The E]

My personal assumption (which is not backed by canon in any way) is that during the fighting, they got enough sensor readings of the Lucy to determine how much damage the shields can dissipate. End result was that they needed a weapon that could put out a given amount of damage over a given amount of time on a given surface area, and thus the BGreen was born.

[Bob-san]

And prior to developing their beams, the only way they could possibly do damage on it with current weapons would probably cost entire capital ships to even leave a mark, much less actually destroy or disable the Lucy.