Author Topic: Science is killing us  (Read 14814 times)

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Offline Snail

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Re: Science is killing us
WE'RE ALL DOOOOOOOOMED AAAGHGHHGHGHGHGHGHGHG


:)

 

Offline Iss Mneur

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Re: Science is killing us
In my experience, "destroying the fabric of society" is more like "I don't understand $THING, I have no idea how $THING works, and thus $THING has to be bad for everyone". AKA it's what happens when you stop accepting the fact that society at large is constantly evolving to react to new trends and start to think that your society at some given point in history was better than the society you are living in right now, not only for you, but for EVERYONE. Which is just .... mind-boggingly presumptious.

Ya, pretty much, its that combination of "golden age", history written by the winners, and the survivor bias.  That is, the ones that we "see" now are the ones that actually did well in that period or were at least remember/recorded.  We don't see the people that were oppressed or otherwise trampled on either because they didn't or couldn't record their experience (or it was just lost as time can be a real *****). 

The result of this, when you get right down to it, is the vast majority that we know about the history of the human civilizations, including ones that exist today comes from one or two people that were in that civilization or visited the civilization.  Which means that we have no idea what the normal person did or what life was like for them, as they either could not write/record, didn't write/record, or what they wrote/recorded was lost to time.  In fact we still have this problem with things from today.  I have even seen it here on HLP ( and I have only been on this board continuously for less than a year) where things have disappeared and knowledge is lost (the code base is good public example of that, "what were they thinking!").

I just hear "social conservative, social conservative.  i love my freedom that modern society has given me but i'm here to take yours away"

Fixed that for you.
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Offline Sushi

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Re: Science is killing us
I do think it's as much of a fallacy to say that "we're in decline because X happens more/less" as to say "we aren't in any sort of decline because Y happened before" simply because society isn't homogeneous and even if morality could be described as a function over time, it certainly isn't monotonic. Besides, most of the time the arguments are made using whatever handpicked examples are at hand, instead of any empirical measure... and even if you want an empirical measure, I doubt they are always as available as you'd like (am I right Battuta?) or even in the same frame of reference.

EDIT: Iss just said a lot of what I meant: we have a skewed view of the past anyway, and there's not much we can do about that.

As far as technology goes, it is simply an enabler. It certainly can be used for good or evil, to make society better or worse. But it's no more responsible for any of that than a hammer is for building a house.

(But if you are on the verge of introducing technology Z, know that it will probably be used mostly for bad purposes, and choose to introduce it anyway and enable people to destroy themselves, are you morally responsible? Good philosophical question, but tangential).

That said, I do worry that modern western society is heading in troubling directions... mostly that as we get more connected and involved in the virtual world, we become less connected and involved in the real world. We're abstracting ourselves away from reality, and I worry that the consequences of this will be more bad than good.

 

Offline Liberator

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Re: Science is killing us
I just hear "social conservative, social conservative.  i hate freedom and i'm here to take yours away"

MM HMM...I'd like some of whatever he's drinking.

Seriously though, 100 years ago, the "Conservatives" of today would have been labeled Liberals.  Also, for the record, Tura I don't give a flying damn if you smoke, drink, **** and "high" your way into an early grave.  But I'll be damned if I'm going to let you advocate rampant such with government monies or authority.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Nemesis6

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Re: Science is killing us
Ben Stein says: Science leads you to killing people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihYq2dGa29M

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Science is killing us
@Liberator

That's part of the problem though.  If I was running my 9th grade health class, I'd be telling kids that weed is a little less dangerous than alcohol, but that both can cause problems in your life, and that sex is a natural thing, but that they should use protection to make sure they don't get STDs (or babies).  

I imagine your take on that class would be a little more in line with what that class actually taught, and a lot less useful.  (drugs are bad, dont have sex).  You know, the stuff that made me all unprepared for actual reality once i got out of my house.

I wouldn't consider my take on the class to be "advocating ****ing and getting high" i would consider it "giving them an accurate picture of reality"
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Science is killing us
Ben Stein says: Science leads you to killing people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihYq2dGa29M

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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Science is killing us
(But if you are on the verge of introducing technology Z, know that it will probably be used mostly for bad purposes, and choose to introduce it anyway and enable people to destroy themselves, are you morally responsible? Good philosophical question, but tangential).
Oppenheimer would probably have a lot to say on that particular topic. ;)

 
Re: Science is killing us
What counts as destroying themselves? Back in the 30's the radio was going to corrupt kids and destroy society.

Liberator: If you keeps kids uninformed, then all their decisions and actions will be uniformed. And probably wrong.

  

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Science is killing us
I just hear "social conservative, social conservative.  i hate freedom and i'm here to take yours away"

MM HMM...I'd like some of whatever he's drinking.

Seriously though, 100 years ago, the "Conservatives" of today would have been labeled Liberals.  Also, for the record, Tura I don't give a flying damn if you smoke, drink, **** and "high" your way into an early grave.  But I'll be damned if I'm going to let you advocate rampant such with government monies or authority.

What's the line between 'advocating' and 'teaching to handle responsibly?'

I mean, at a point, if it's going to happen anyway, and you don't say anything about it, aren't you advocating doing it recklessly and unsafely?

This coming from a lifelong abstinent and monogamist.

 
Re: Science is killing us
This coming from a lifelong abstinent and monogamist.

Ditto.

Maybe its because I was taught all about the options and consequences of things. After learning all the stuff taught in sex ed and drug talks, my curiosity was driven from me.

 

Offline iamzack

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Re: Science is killing us
I mean, at a point, if it's going to happen anyway, and you don't say anything about it, aren't you advocating doing it recklessly and unsafely?

Teachers at my schools weren't allowed to tell us about contraceptives. I and just about everyone I knew believed that you had to be 18 to buy condoms. I was already sexually active (if you don't plan on ever getting married, why wait?) before I learned the truth.

Your answer is yes.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Science is killing us
Yep, not teaching properly results in the propagation of idiotic myths like that you can't get pregnant if you have sex standing up. :D
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Offline Liberator

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Re: Science is killing us
All I remember from my health class was the 20 year old slide of a guy that got mouth cancer from chewing tobacco and had to have his cheek amputated.

I'm all for teaching all the options, provided they're taught without bias.  And yes, I'm counting derision from the instructor as bias.  The problem is that the push from the top seems to be to toss anything not from the progressive playbook.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Science is killing us
All I remember from my health class was the 20 year old slide of a guy that got mouth cancer from chewing tobacco and had to have his cheek amputated.

I'm all for teaching all the options, provided they're taught without bias.  And yes, I'm counting derision from the instructor as bias.  The problem is that the push from the top seems to be to toss anything not from the progressive playbook.

Source please.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Science is killing us
This coming from a lifelong abstinent and monogamist.

Ditto.

Maybe its because I was taught all about the options and consequences of things. After learning all the stuff taught in sex ed and drug talks, my curiosity was driven from me.

Oh hey, that's me too.

 
Re: Science is killing us
WE'RE ALL DOOOOOOOOMED AAAGHGHHGHGHGHGHGHGHG


:)

WE'RE DOOOOMMMMMED!
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Science is killing us
 The problem is that the push from the top seems to be to toss anything not from the progressive playbook.

Such as?

What exactly has been tossed for not being in the progressive playbook?
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Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Science is killing us
 The problem is that the push from the top seems to be to toss anything not from the progressive playbook.

Such as?

What exactly has been tossed for not being in the progressive playbook?

I know! I know!

The stuff about contraceptives! Oh, wait...

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Science is killing us
Interesting how someone who is against abortions also is against teaching teenagers to use protections when they do it to make it so there's no need to have an abortion.
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