[Nuke]

(But if you are on the verge of introducing technology Z, know that it will probably be used mostly for bad purposes, and choose to introduce it anyway and enable people to destroy themselves, are you morally responsible? Good philosophical question, but tangential).

Oppenheimer would probably have a lot to say on that particular topic.

if science is killing us then why is the world still not a radioactive wasteland? get with the program people and start nuking cities! i cant wait to start riding around in the desert on a motorcycle killing people for gasoline.

Yep, not teaching properly results in the propagation of idiotic myths like that you can't get pregnant if you have sex standing up.

thats more the kind of thing you say to get into some girls pants. i usually avoided worrying about getting chicks pregnant simply by screwing only married women, that way even if she does get pregnant youre off the hook.

[Scotty]

Interesting how someone who is against abortions also is against teaching teenagers to use protections when they do it to make it so there's no need to have an abortion.

Who does this apply to?  Normally I'd assume Lib, but he's stated the opposite on this one.

I'm all for teaching all the options, provided they're taught without bias.

[Liberator]

In a perfect world, everyone would have the ethics and morality to wait until they are married.  Like me!

[Turambar]

In a perfect world, everyone would have the ethics and morality to wait until they are married.  Like me!

Yeah, but then nobody would get laid.  Sex is fun, and can be done safely with no consequences if you know what you're doing. 

  The problem is that the push from the top seems to be to toss anything not from the progressive playbook.

Such as?

What exactly has been tossed for not being in the progressive playbook?

All those silly things like gender equality, race equality, contraception.  Dangerous ideas like "drugs can be fine in moderation" and "sometimes abortion is ok."  Anti-American ideas like workers unionizing to protect themselves from abusive employers, not driving everywhere you go in the biggest car possible, eating your vegetables.

[General Battuta]

In a perfect world, everyone would have the ethics and morality to wait until they are married.  Like me!

That would be unethical and immoral.

Especially when large chunks of people aren't allowed to get married.

Your wedding night is also going to be really, really bad.

[Flipside]

I still remember the first time, it's never what could be described as 'momentous' experience, more like 'terrifying'...

[Kszyhu]

All those silly things like gender equality, race equality, contraception.  Dangerous ideas like "drugs can be fine in moderation" and "sometimes abortion is ok."

I would say that abortion is never ok. It is acceptable in some circumstances, there are cases where it is a neccesity. But 'ok'?

[Flipside]

People certainly shouldn't be classed as 'Baby-Killers' or 'Murderers' or 'Evil' for doing so. But, in fairness, a lot of work has to be done to deter the idea that it is a contraceptive measure.

What should really be the focus is not whether abortion is 'Right' or 'Wrong', but educating people so that the decision shouldn't even be a concern in far more cases.

That's where education should be playing a positive role, rather than a negative one.

And, in fairness, he did qualify it with the word 'sometimes'.

[Scotty]

O.k. is not the same thing as necessary.

[Flipside]

My position is that any abortion is 'ok', you certainly shouldn't be persecuted for having one, we should, rather than attacking those who choose to have abortions, instead be focussing on reducing the possibility of one being needed in the first place.

Edit: After all, look at the over-arching hypocrisy involved even if this movies' premise, remember it's not Science that says Contraception is bad, it's not science that says Abortions are evil, and yet, apparently, the over-crowding on the planet is science's fault...

[The E]

I would say that abortion is never ok. It is acceptable in some circumstances, there are cases where it is a neccesity. But 'ok'?

It is one thing for you to have an opinion on the matter (although, if you are a single male, I kinda would have to ask what it is that makes you qualified to even have an opinion on the subject). You are certainly free to voice your opinion, but ultimately, it is your opinion, not some immutable fact.

It is quite another thing to construct policies to keep women from making an informed decision on the subject themselves.
Or to camp outside of clinics that perform abortions, screaming invective at Doctors and Patients.
Or to threaten to kill people who perform abortions, or had abortions performed.

[Bobboau]

or actually kill people who perform abortions, or had abortions performed.
cause that's happened.

[Liberator]

Also, Flip, I was thinking more along the lines of telling everyone that they have a "right" to this luxury or that piece of fancy.

When you start turning luxuries into "rights" you are gaming the board of economy right into a place where it will stumble or fall.  Because if a big house or a fancy car or a Rolex are considered "rights" then people will do whatever it takes to obtain them, including taking on crippling debt that they have no hope of ever paying.  

And now you have a bunch of progressives(though they are hardly labeled as such) riding to the rescue and basically saying that "It doesn't matter that you flushed your life down the toilet with this debt, we'll cover you with tax money."  It's not Government's place to live our lives for us and save us from making mistakes.  This short article says it more eloquently than I could what the responsibilities of the government are on a basic level.  Though there are reasonable limitations that should be placed on government.

On the topic of abortion, my main gripe and complaint with it is that it is considered a viable method of contraception.  When in fact it's a major medical procedure with all the inherent risks of any other surgery, despite this, women's rights 'advocates' continue to promote it as a contraceptive.  Teenaged girls having an abortion without parental notification is akin to having open heart surgery without parental notification, which is illegal because they are minors.  I have said in the past that I would be ok with a non-invasive "abortion pill", if such a thing is possible that doesn't harm the health of the woman, that is taken after unprotected intercourse as an emergency contraception, but again it would need to be administered by a physician to protect against complications.

Lastly, committing a murder to stop a murder is never the right thing.  Even to stop a dozen or a hundred or a thousand.  Human life is sacred and while I might joke about killing this despot or that terrorist, it usually doesn't solve anything.

[General Battuta]

On the topic of abortion, my main gripe and complaint with it is that it is considered a viable method of contraception.

Cite please. Who says this?

When in fact it's a major medical procedure with all the inherent risks of any other surgery, despite this, women's rights 'advocates' continue to promote it as a contraceptive.  Teenaged girls having an abortion without parental notification is akin to having open heart surgery without parental notification, which is illegal because they are minors

Cite please. Why is this true when having an early-term abortion just requires taking a pill?

I have said in the past that I would be ok with a non-invasive "abortion pill", if such a thing is possible that doesn't harm the health of the woman, that is taken after unprotected intercourse as an emergency contraception, but again it would need to be administered by a physician to protect against complications.

Are you ****ing serious?

This is why we need better sex education.

This already exists. Mifepristone or Mifeprex will do this. Plan B will do this. This has been around for decades.

I mean, seriously, are you kidding? How did you not know this and yet even have an opinion on abortion? It's like me saying 'Well, I think interstate travel would be something I could get behind if we had some kind of...engine-powered vehicles, instead of horse-drawn carriages.'

Lastly, committing a murder to stop a murder is never the right thing.  Even to stop a dozen or a hundred or a thousand.  Human life is sacred and while I might joke about killing this despot or that terrorist, it usually doesn't solve anything.

If anyone could agree on whether or not abortion was murder or not this might be helpful. Why aren't we rushing to stop the millions of accidental deaths caused by human pregnancies' 80% failure rate? I mean, wouldn't it be a tragedy and a holocaust if bricks kept falling on 80% of babies and killing them? Why aren't we up in arms about it?

I'm personally of the opinion that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

[Scotty]

I'm personally of the opinion that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

I don't think there's a single person on this board right now that disagrees with any of that (except maybe on the rare part).  The differences and argument come from how that should be accomplished, whether the difference comes from differing levels of education or whathaveyou.

[Flipside]

Well, no offence to the Americans on here, but the USA is a country that is obsessed with 'Rights', for better or for worse. It means that just as Gays have to accept the Westborough Baptist Church as being allowed to have the position they do, so do anti-abortionists have to accept that their view is not shared by everyone.

All of these various groups would love their opinions enshrined in law, which is why Governments all over the western world will work really hard to not have a solid policy on these matters regardless of outside pressure, but there are sections of the US Government that are starting to consider votes more important than this position.

People see Rights protecting Gays or Abortion as being pro-Liberal, but, in truth, they are simply there to give people the choice, it's a lot fairer to open a door and invite people to not walk through it than to close the door to everyone, and it's always dangerous when people who choose not to walk through the door decide the door should be closed.

[Bobboau]

did you just equate all of the people on this board who are opposed to abortion with the WBC? cause I've found that comparison is often met with hostility.

[General Battuta]

did you just equate all of the people on this board who are opposed to abortion with the WBC? cause I've found that comparison is often met with hostility.

I actually think he equated the people who were pro-abortion with the WBC. In an illustrative rather than provocative manner.

[Nuke]

humans should be destroyed by any means possible. abortion is totally acceptable meathod, although not as fun as nukes or gatling guns.

[Flipside]

did you just equate all of the people on this board who are opposed to abortion with the WBC? cause I've found that comparison is often met with hostility.

That's just stupid, and a wonderful example of looking for a reason to be offended.

Seriously, I've seen some grasps in my time, but that's stretching it to new levels....