[el_magnifico]

Subach is very good

Where is the Avenger? Where is the Banshee? Where is the Flail? Where is the S-Breaker? Why did the Alliance replaced all those excellent primaries with a weapon that, while good, is notably inferior?

the Mentu is quite durable for an anti-fighter cruiser (and for a Vasudan cruiser, actually)

Oh! It is good in the anti-fighter role. But it's still not good enough in the anti-capital role for a cruiser.

If you go purely with statistics, the Fenris actually has more anti-capital firepower than the Leviathan. Its LTerSlash actually outdamages the SGreen over time due to the SGreen's retardedly long reload time. Not that that would save if from anything, being made of paper...

Yes, but the LTerSlash is only useful against something destroyer-sized or above. And we have already seen how badly the Fenris performs against destroyers like the Psamtik.

The Myrmidon is labeled as a Space Superiority because, well, that's probably what it's closest too.

Insufficient. The Myrmidon is a multi-role fighter, something you would build if you were trying to cut the maintenance costs. It should have been labeled as such, unless the Alliance didn't wanted to make it obvious that they were replacing the Ulysses and Apollo with something cheaper and inferior.
It kinds of reminds me to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMA_SAIA_90

Some people had the balls to call that air superiority, even though it was clear, even for a layman like me, that it was only a cheap multi-role fighter with some stealth capabilities, and no match for the real air superiority craft of those years.

Hecates carry more fightercraft than Orions and we all know that an extra wing of fighters in FreeSpace is far more valuable than an extra heavy beam cannon, especially since that said fighter wing can easily disarm the said beam cannon with little trouble. The Hecate also actually has means to defend itself from fighters and bombers, unlike the Orion which has like one blob turret to defend its entire flank which coincidentally has all its heavy weapons. You can approach an Orion from the side and never be targeted by a single point defense weapon, and then disarm all its beams without ever coming under fire.

Granted. That sounds like a good enough explanation to me (altough I still prefer the Orion).

the entire cruiser ship type was to be replaced by the corvette

Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it . But that sounds like a good enough explanation too.
Poor RNI shipyards though.

I'd be surprised if the NTF had any Hecate destroyers,

Again, it has been canonicaly stated that they had the NTD Corsica.

So:

I mean, there has to be some explanation or some excuse for the Hecate, the Subach, the Mentu, the Bonaerges (this one is practically admitted), the cancelling of the Aeolus production, the lame Fenris upgrade, the Myrmidon as a space superiority fighter when it should clearly have been a multi-role fighter, etc.

[Colonol Dekker]

According to DaveBs Freespace fleet layout Doc the GTVA had nine Hecates at the time of the second invasion.

[el_magnifico]

Double-post because I just want to make this clear: I'm not bashing the Myrmidon. I like it. It's flexible, it serves multiple purposes well, and in some cases it is superior to the Apollo. It's just not space superiority in the traditional sense.

EDIT: Bah', it's not a doublepost anymore. Thanks Dekker.

[Scotty]

Question:  Why does it even matter what we call it?  It's still a fighter.

[el_magnifico]

Question:  Why does it even matter what we call it?  It's still a fighter.

If it's inferior on the space superiority role than its predecessors, and yet still you label it as space superiority and claim it's a replacement, then you're replacing a superior asset with an inferior one without wanting to admit it, so you should have a reason.

Question: Having the Apollo, Ulysses and Loki, and the technology to produce them, why did the Alliance replaced them with something worse in the role? As I said, I could be wrong. But I've yet to hear a better theory to justify such illogical decisions.

[Bonehead]

According to DaveBs Freespace fleet layout Doc the GTVA had nine Hecates at the time of the second invasion.

Where can I get that doc?

[el_magnifico]

According to DaveBs Freespace fleet layout Doc the GTVA had nine Hecates at the time of the second invasion.

Where can I get that doc?

That's actually a good question. I want to read it too.

Even assuming the Aeneas, Delacroix and Vengeance were all Hecates, four Hecate destroyers are still missing.

[CP5670]

According to DaveBs Freespace fleet layout Doc the GTVA had nine Hecates at the time of the second invasion.

I think you are referring to the fleet guide made by Su-tehp, which is fanmade. I have never heard of anything Dave wrote on this.

[Spoon]

It kinds of reminds me to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMA_SAIA_90

Who... wrote that article. My brain, it hurts.

Although it was desirable to achieve a combination of the advantages that a very loaded wing delta and little weight offers; the turn capacity to régime transonic/subsonic of one darted with small lengthening, the stability of a wing delta without line plane and the character STOL of a wing of arrow variable, was impossible to gather all these qualities in a wing.

The opposing solution of commitment for the pattern, was the continuation of the border of attack of the wings that generated a vortex of high energy (apex) and it improved the aerodynamic yield notably in big angles of incidence. Another characteristic of the design was the artificial longitudinal stability that allowed equilibrating the airplane by means of the application of positive forces on the line planes.

[el_magnifico]

Now that you mention it, the Spanish version is poorly redacted too. Not that I can complain about the English version though, since I would probably do a worse job if I tried.

Nah', screw the SAIA 90, it was never completed anyway, and it's a bit embarrassing . The Military Aircraft Factory really has better things from its history to show in Wikipedia than that.

[Paladin327]

Question: Having the Apollo, Ulysses and Loki, and the technology to produce them, why did the Alliance replaced them with something worse in the role?  As I said, I could be wrong. But I've yet to hear a better theory to justify such illogical decisions.

the main production facilities were located at vasuda prime and/or Sol?

[IronBeer]

Question: Having the Apollo, Ulysses and Loki, and the technology to produce them, why did the Alliance replaced them with something worse in the role?  As I said, I could be wrong. But I've yet to hear a better theory to justify such illogical decisions.

the main production facilities were located at vasuda prime and/or Sol?

Plausible for the Loki and Uly, but I thought the Apollo was meant to be a fairly durable and simple fightercraft- aka one that could probably be produced elsewhere. Not that us or the Zods could have anticipated losing our respective homeworlds during the Great War, though.

[el_magnifico]

Question: Having the Apollo, Ulysses and Loki, and the technology to produce them, why did the Alliance replaced them with something worse in the role?  As I said, I could be wrong. But I've yet to hear a better theory to justify such illogical decisions.

the main production facilities were located at vasuda prime and/or Sol?

Possible. But a better option would have been to simply reverse engineer the crafts, adapt current facilities accordingly, and begin producing them again.

Or, if you're going to replace them, replace them with something better. Unless you wanted to replace them with something cheaper to begin with.

Anyway, I don't think there was so much technology and industrial capacity lost after the node collapsed if they could still built other, more advanced craft like the Herc II. They should have been able to adapt.

But again, that's a possible explanation.

I mean, there has to be some explanation or some excuse for the Hecate, the Subach, the Mentu, the Bonaerges (this one is practically admitted), the cancelling of the Aeolus production, the lame Fenris upgrade, the Myrmidon as a space superiority fighter when it should clearly have been a multi-role fighter, etc.

EDIT: Hold on! The Loki's production facilities weren't in Sol. In fact, the NTF was still using the Loki. The argument still holds.

[Bonehead]

They lost the capability to produce the Prometheus cannon which indicates that they lost 'something'.  Maybe they also lost the ability to produce some better ships.

[el_magnifico]

They lost the capability to produce the Prometheus cannon which indicates that they lost 'something'.  Maybe they also lost the ability to produce some better ships.

They had the capability to produce the Prometheus cannon. They lacked the necessary materials. That's why production was resumed after they discovered the nebula.

Also, read the edit at the end of my previous post.

[Scotty]

EDIT: Hold on! The Loki's production facilities weren't in Sol. In fact, the NTF was still using the Loki. The argument still holds.

Cite the first, please.  The NTF were still using the Ulysses to, to the second.

[el_magnifico]

EDIT: Hold on! The Loki's production facilities weren't in Sol. In fact, the NTF was still using the Loki. The argument still holds.

Cite the first, please.

The Loki was designed and produced during the GTI rebelion. The node to Sol had already collapsed by that time.

The NTF were still using the Ulysses to, to the second.

That's actually better for my argument. That means there were production facilities for the Ulysses outside Sol and Vasuda.

[Colonol Dekker]

According to DaveBs Freespace fleet layout Doc the GTVA had nine Hecates at the time of the second invasion.

Where can I get that doc?

 
I'm just pulling your leg.
It was from made-up land

[Gamma_Draconis]

I'm pretty sure the Myrmidon is superior or is at least suppose to be superior to the Apollo and Ulysses considering this on the first mission.

Welcome to Vega, Ensign. I am Lieutenant Loukakis, squadron leader of the 53rd Hammerheads. You have been assigned to our unit. The Hammerheads are a space superiority squadron. We'll be flying the Myrmidon fighter, developed to replace the old GTF Ulysses. The Myrmidon is a Terran-Vasudan design and a versatile ship with high marks for speed, maneuverability, armor, and loadout.

The Apollo was hands down out of of production by the end of the Great War. You don't see many if any of them left. The Ulysses took over its role. The same probably happened to the Ulysses with the Myrmidon.

[Paladin327]

the apollo could have also had reactor issues with the shielding technology as it was not designed with shields in mind nd retrofitted with them. perhaps the GTVA wanted a space supiriority-ish fighter with shields in the main design with a larger missile capacity than the ulysseys. the myrm is also faster and has greater secondary compatability than the apollo, because the apollo has no anyi-bomber missile capacity while myrmi has trebs