[AndrewofDoom]

I really believe that the film grain event should not be controlled by the mission designer, but by the user. So instead of it as a type in the set-post-effect SEXP, it should be a command line just like bloom.

[General Battuta]

No! No more command line options! 

And it absolutely should be able to be controlled by the mission designer.

[Angelus]

I really believe that the film grain event should not be controlled by the mission designer, but by the user. So instead of it as a type in the set-post-effect SEXP, it should be a command line just like bloom.

I have to disagree.

Campaigns/ Missions, where certain mission/cutscenes use this ( or other PP ) effects to enhance, would be ****ed up if you allow the player, to enable or disable it via flag. While Bloom ( in its current implamentation ) is something that should be player controlled, the other PP effects aren't.

[Quanto]

Every modern game has film grain as a check box option in the options menu. It should absolutely be an end-user control.
The more control you take away from the end user, the less enjoyable it is.

Yes, I understand from the perspective of the designer that it should utilized as and artistic enhancement for the mission. But it should not be something available ONLY to the designer. What if the player wants to have it turned on in other moments throughout the game?

The checkbox (in our case, a commandline flag), should function as an additional option to afford the player more control over their playing experience.

I would merely suggest that the commandline be included as something that works in additon to the spex.

The fact that all of these neat effects are available only to the developer, and not the end user is, in my not humble opinion, selfish.

[Parias]

I would merely suggest that the commandline be included as something that works in additon to the spex.

That makes some sense. What probably spawned some of the counter-argument was this:

So instead of it as a type in the set-post-effect SEXP, it should be a command line just like bloom.

Andrew seemed to be requesting that the ability to turn on this functionality be completely removed out of the mission designer's hands, and enabled 'only' as a command-line option. Which wouldn't make any sense, because this "all or nothing" implementation would (as was argued back) essentially ruin the mission scripting.

However, the other argument for an option to either have this function invoked only when triggered by the mission designer, or just to force it on at all times if desired does make a bit more sense.

[General Battuta]

No more ridiculous command line settings, please.

If I want to convey that a given cutscene is a recording taken from a probe, I need to be able to use film grain (or an analogue) without worrying that the player has disabled it. If Axem wants to force desaturated colors across Vassago's Dirge he should be able to.

We've been trying to cut down on command line options for years. Adding another batch just seems unwise. If we had an in-game graphics menu it might be a different matter.

Requesting that control be taken from the mission designer, however, is totally unacceptable.

[Quanto]

I'm simply saying the nothing should be exclusively controlled by either party.
This feature request was written up by Andy through my behest, but I should have probably written it myself.

The fact the matter is this, not a single effect should be controlled by a single party. Any good game (or good engine for that matter) allows the end user control over their experience. In terms of mission cut scenes, yes they should over-ride the the end-user's settings. But at the same time, if you were the end user, and there was a cool effect feature, and you wanted to use it but you couldn't, wouldn't that make you angry?

[FUBAR-BDHR]

The user already has the ability to turn it off by disabling PP. 

[Quanto]

I don't want to turn it off.
I want to turn it on!
For missions that don't have it.

[Angelus]

No more ridiculous command line settings, please.

If I want to convey that a given cutscene is a recording taken from a probe, I need to be able to use film grain (or an analogue) without worrying that the player has disabled it. If Axem wants to force desaturated colors across Vassago's Dirge he should be able to.

We've been trying to cut down on command line options for years. Adding another batch just seems unwise. If we had an in-game graphics menu it might be a different matter.

Requesting that control be taken from the mission designer, however, is totally unacceptable.

 


Even IF someone would add the ability for the player to enable or disable PP effects ( and i seriously hope no one bothers with that), either via commandline option or ingame menu, the via SEXP-enabled PP effects like filmgrain and saturation, set by the Mission designer, should ALWAYS override player settings.



EDIT:

I don't want to turn it off.
I want to turn it on!
For missions that don't have it.

Hm, then you have to edit the missions. It takes only one event that can be copied into the mission file in Notepad.

[blowfish]

I just can't imagine any scenario where a user would want to turn on film grain and wouldn't be able to do it in FRED.

[Quanto]

I DON"T WANT IT TURNED OFF IN FRED!!!
I just want the player to have the option to TURN IT ON!!!

[blowfish]

I just want the player to have the option to TURN IT ON!!!

Just give an example of a situation where you might want to use this.

[Quanto]

Right ****in now. I want to play FSO mods, with Bloom and film grain, on all the time.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

But if the mission don't have it then turning it on will do nothing anyway.

[blowfish]

Right ****in now. I want to play FSO mods, with Bloom and film grain, on all the time.

Playing with film grain all the time seems a bit strange .. but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway, isn't post processing disabled in trunk (because it was never really finished)?  I wouldn't expect anything like this to happen until the feature is completely polished.

[Angelus]

Right ****in now. I want to play FSO mods, with Bloom and film grain, on all the time.

Then edit mission files or tables. 

[General Battuta]

I DON"T WANT IT TURNED OFF IN FRED!!!
I just want the player to have the option to TURN IT ON!!!

Then why did the original feature request, which was apparently written at your behest, ask for it to be disabled in FRED? 

Let's get postprocessing working as a feature. When that is done we may have more options to discuss this.

[Zacam]

You want all film grain, all the time?

Use a script to call the SEXP on the mission start hook.

Enjoy. No more additional commandlines options are going in for post processing until it is out of Experimental. Period.

Don't like that? Then help us code it so that it can be a complete feature.

[Aardwolf]

You people are thick.

He doesn't want to change existing missions. He wants film grain in WHATEVER he plays.