Author Topic: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?  (Read 21905 times)

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Offline Rodo

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
Interesting, it seems to work ok, but the islands are not arranged in a way it will make it easier for me to do the textures...

STILL, better than spending +80 hours uv'ing a so-so model (on a more complex model I would go all the way manually uv'ing it so far).

Thanks for the tip VA, will keep it in mind.
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Col. Fishguts

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
Warning, HUEG post imminent.

Ok, before we get to the UV mapping part, some info for Dekker: Your 3ds model has some nasty geometry errors (duplicate polies and other things I don't even know what happened there) in the areas marked below, but don't worry it's fixed now. I also did some other cleanup, made the cockpit and the "hooks" part of the main model and applied smooth groups... it's still not the most efficient model, but to explain UV mappig it will do nicely.



Now, let's get down to business.

Step 1 - We start with the upper part of the main hull, select the faces that are (close to) horizontal and do a planar mapping along the z-axis (= from top down). Observe the yellow rectangular outline on the model showing the mapping plane and the result on the right side. Note: the model could also be mapped so that it's mirrored along the middle, but I find the resulting seam ugly, since it really stands out when you do some scratches/weathering on the texture. So I usually go the non-mirrored route on the central parts (the left/right flank I usually do mirrored, since you never see those parts simultaneously on screen)



Step 2 - Next come the flanks; as mentioned above, select both the right/left parts and do a planar mapping along the x-axis (straight from the side). So far, so easy.



Step 3 - Now comes the first tricky part, the faces between the top and the flanks. Those faces are roughly at 45° between the x and z axis, so an orthogonal mapping would result in serious pixel-stretching, which will give you eye cancer. So what do we do? We select the faces in question and perform a planar mapping to the average normal of all the selected faces, again watch the yellow outline showing the mapping plane.



Step 4 - Now if we look at the top part and the part we just mapped side by side, we see that they fit more or less together. At this point you always have to make a decision: Do you want that part mapped seamlessly or without any stretched pixels? The answer always depends on what you plan to put on the texture in the end, things like panel lines you can usually line up pretty easily on the texture so that the seam is not visible. On the other hand, heavy weathering and other random patterns are very hard to match manually on the texture.



In this case I went with the seamless option, since the resulting pixel-stretching is very moderate and hard to see.


Step 4 - The bottom is relatively easy, select the faces and do a planar z-axis mapping again.



Step 5 - The rear end is a nice example of the paper model approach. The flat part straight to the rear is mapped planar along the y-axis (straight from behind). The parts around it were all done in the same way: select the faces and do a planar mapping along the average face normal, scale/rotate the result so that it matches to the central part and then weld it onto the central part. The identical parts on the left/right side were stacked on top of each other.



Step 6 - The little face there is also part of the main hull (and not the out pods), so we map it planar to its face normal and scale/weld it to the rear section we just mapped before. Also the corresponding face on the front of the wing were done like that.



Step 7 - Ok, let's see what we have so far; we scale the 4 resulting "islands" correctly in respect to each other, arrange them in somewhat efficient way (for now) and park them somewhere outside the 0/1 UV space so they don't get in the way until we need them again.



To check if the scaling is ok, we apply some checker pattern... seems ok so far.



Next up, we do the cockpit, the pods and the other little do-dads, so stay tuned.
"I don't think that people accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. I think it makes people terribly uncomfortable. It seems like religion and myth were invented against that, trying to make sense out of it." - D. Lynch

Visit The Babylon Project, now also with HTL flavour  ¦ GTB Rhea

 
Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
I do have a tutorial about that (I think it's in the tutorial sticky)
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
I'm watching this topic very closely. Thanks for doing this Fishguts.
 
The processes you explain are obviously doable in other programs but out of curiousity what are you using?
 
I've read yours Scooby and I enjoyed it. Just trying to get as much perspective on this process as possible :)
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
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Offline Angelus

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
I'm watching this topic very closely. Thanks for doing this Fishguts.
 
The processes you explain are obviously doable in other programs but out of curiousity what are you using?
 
I've read yours Scooby and I enjoyed it. Just trying to get as much perspective on this process as possible :)

By the looks of it 3DSMax, not sure on the Version though, but it looks like 9.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
Oh.
 
I've got Max 9 32 bit.
 
Maybe I should learn it.
 
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline Col. Fishguts

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
It's 3DSMax 7. If you have any Max version, i would highly encourage you to learn it, that or Blender. The UV mapping tool alone is much more powerful and user-friendly than Lith can ever be.
"I don't think that people accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. I think it makes people terribly uncomfortable. It seems like religion and myth were invented against that, trying to make sense out of it." - D. Lynch

Visit The Babylon Project, now also with HTL flavour  ¦ GTB Rhea

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
fishguts pretty much hits the nail on the head. lots of the same techniques i use.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Col. Fishguts

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
Ok, here comes the rest:

Step 8 - The cockpit is pretty straight-forward, by now this should be self-explanatory.



Step 9 - The outer pods are pretty boxy, so again it's always the same procedure: Pick one side that is near orthogonal to one of the x, y, or z axis and do a planar mapping, pick an adjacent side, map it and then scale and weld it onto the already mapped parts. If there are faces not close to one of the orthogonal planes, do a planar mapping along the average face normal. I've selected some faces in the screenshot to make it easier to see which part is where. I'm not going into the other various small bits, since they are all done the same method and are even easier.



When all is done comes the fun part: Scale all the "face islands" correctly in respect to each other. I've found that using edges that are part of several islands as scale references is easiest. When all parts are to scale, select all of them and scale them simultaneously to a size where they use up all the available UV space as much as possible. This requires some eye-balling and several iterations of moving parts and scaling again.
Note1: It's impossible to have maximum UV space efficiency and identical scale on all parts. So in the end you might scale up some parts to make better use of the space. When doing this, do it with parts where the non-uniform pixel-density isn't glaringly obvious, and where the increased resolution can be put to use. In this case I've made the cockpit and the outer pods slightly larger to fill up the space.
Note2: You could also use a non-square texture, but I haven't found an easy way in Max to handle it, since the UV editor always shows UV space in squares from 0 to 1. Anybody want to share some tricks how to do it?



Looking at the result with the same checker pattern applied again.



Another reason to switch to Max or Blender is that you can do fancy stuff like render ambient occlusion to the texture.



If you apply the ambient occlusion map as a multiplication layer on top of a simple generic metallic texture, you're already halfway done with the texture



I've also slapped on a quick'n'dirty cockpit and some panel lines to demonstrate how to line up details over several separately mapped parts



Click here to download the .rar file, contains the Max scene, the texture in PSD format, the DAE export file and a quick POF conversion without any additional data. Have fun.
"I don't think that people accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. I think it makes people terribly uncomfortable. It seems like religion and myth were invented against that, trying to make sense out of it." - D. Lynch

Visit The Babylon Project, now also with HTL flavour  ¦ GTB Rhea

 

Offline Rodo

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
Another reason to switch to Max or Blender is that you can do fancy stuff like render ambient occlusion to the texture.

Wait, WHAT?

Cool results, I'll check how can that be done in blender right away!
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Raven2001

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
If you are using Max, also try start using Pelt UVmapping+relax in some areas. People tend to think that pelt mapping is crap for non-organic models, but it is quite the contrary.

Also, if you use Max for modeling and UVmapping, there's something else you can do: model and UVmap at the same time. There's some modeling tools that don't screw the UVmapping (others screw it completely). I've been experimenting with this lately, and I must say it makes the process of mapping the model less tedious.
Yeah, I know you were waiting for a very nice sig, in which I was quoting some very famous scientist or philosopher... guess what?!? I wont indulge you...

Why, you ask? What, do I look like a Shivan to you?!?


Raven is a god.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
Fishguts, I've only ever done glowmaps in max. Didn't know about AO but looking at the results, i'm already sold on it.
 
I'm definitely on my way to being wholly converted. Regarding the UV map as I model comment- as I tend to use a lot of extrusion and boolean joins I don't know if it'd be effective for me. I'm always open to learning new things though. . . .except Blender.
 
The interface terrifies me.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline Angelus

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
Fishguts, I've only ever done glowmaps in max. Didn't know about AO but looking at the results, i'm already sold on it.
 
I'm definitely on my way to being wholly converted. Regarding the UV map as I model comment- as I tend to use a lot of extrusion and boolean joins I don't know if it'd be effective for me. I'm always open to learning new things though. . . .except Blender.
 
The interface terrifies me.

Shouldn't matter as long you clean up after the boolean.

 
Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
The only thing I can comment about booleans as I quit using them (for sanity sake) is that they usually need cleaning up afterwards.  Merging vertices and you have to be careful with smoothing as it can sometimes gets goofed up and look bad.  :blah:
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
The only thing I can comment about booleans as I quit using them (for sanity sake) is that they usually need cleaning up afterwards.  Merging vertices and you have to be careful with smoothing as it can sometimes gets goofed up and look bad.  :blah:

So very, very, very true.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
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  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
I guess I could do some snapping to grid. . .
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 
Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
The only thing I can comment about booleans as I quit using them (for sanity sake) is that they usually need cleaning up afterwards.  Merging vertices and you have to be careful with smoothing as it can sometimes gets goofed up and look bad.  :blah:

So very, very, very true.

The only way I've found to fix this requires an absolute ton of polys (using tesslation or subdivide or something else I can't remember).  Course this makes it unusable in the game.
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

  

Offline Raven2001

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  • Im not the droid your looking for, move along
Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?

Regarding the UV map as I model comment- as I tend to use a lot of extrusion and boolean joins I don't know if it'd be effective for me.


With experience you start having an eye for what you can get away with when modelling+UVmapping at the same time.
For instance I know that if I make a big extrusion\bevel on a model, I'll probably have to re-uv that part. If the extrusion is minor (for instance, to simulate a armor plate), I can get away with it, despite the distortion.
Yeah, I know you were waiting for a very nice sig, in which I was quoting some very famous scientist or philosopher... guess what?!? I wont indulge you...

Why, you ask? What, do I look like a Shivan to you?!?


Raven is a god.

 
Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?

Regarding the UV map as I model comment- as I tend to use a lot of extrusion and boolean joins I don't know if it'd be effective for me.


With experience you start having an eye for what you can get away with when modelling+UVmapping at the same time.
For instance I know that if I make a big extrusion\bevel on a model, I'll probably have to re-uv that part. If the extrusion is minor (for instance, to simulate a armor plate), I can get away with it, despite the distortion.

In Max 9 in Edit Poly mode theres a Preserve UVs checkbox  (in the Edit Geometry section).  It will attempt to save the uvmap.  Sometimes it works great and other it totally messes things up but it's always easier just to check it (besides if it messes things up you'd probably have to redo the uv anyways)
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline Raven2001

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Re: I hate UV mapping. I really hate it. Top tips?
Actually for some operations, you get better results if you have that box uncheked (depends on what you want to do, though) :)
Yeah, I know you were waiting for a very nice sig, in which I was quoting some very famous scientist or philosopher... guess what?!? I wont indulge you...

Why, you ask? What, do I look like a Shivan to you?!?


Raven is a god.