Author Topic: War in Heaven Fanspec thread  (Read 29564 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
Not sure wether this belongs in spoiler tags, but I rather err on the side of caution because of the mention of a special "friend".

Spoiler:
Since the Shivans and Vishnans would have been created after the war was over, why should they know anything about the enemy? Or more importantly, why should they mention it to Bei or Laporte?
But a civil war among the Brahmans is also possible. With all the immesurable time since then the original purpose of the Shivans and Vishnans could have been warped into judging the species as a whole instead of factions.
Maybe that's even the reason why the Vishnans and Shivans no longer like each other. Instead of eliminating the warmongers among a species, the Shivans simply whipe the whole race out. That certainly would fit the evidence of FS1 and AoA, though the things Ken said would indicate something else (if he/she/it is indeed Shivan).

 

Offline -Sara-

  • 29
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
The UEF can terraform, the Vasudans lost Vasuda Prime.. while the Vasudans are known to move on from their losses, would terraform technology not be tempting to them?
Currently playing: real life.

"Paying bills, working, this game called real life is so much fun!" - Said nobody ever.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
The UEF can terraform, the Vasudans lost Vasuda Prime.. while the Vasudans are known to move on from their losses, would terraform technology not be tempting to them?

If you look at the GTVA, it's clear (and assumed in BP canon) that they must have the capability to do some pretty heavy terraforming already, considering the amount of systems they have settled. One has to conclude that even though the Vasudans have the ability to make Vasuda Prime habitable again, they chose not to do so.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline -Sara-

  • 29
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
My bad!
Currently playing: real life.

"Paying bills, working, this game called real life is so much fun!" - Said nobody ever.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
My bad!

Not your bad. I think Vasuda Prime may very well be past recovery. Most terraformed planets probably have reasonably receptive biospheres coming in and just need some tweaking. Vasuda Prime on the other hand is...well, probably literally all shot to hell.

 

Offline Aardwolf

  • 211
  • Posts: 16,384
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
My bad!

Not your bad. I think Vasuda Prime may very well be past recovery. Most terraformed planets probably have reasonably receptive biospheres coming in and just need some tweaking. Vasuda Prime on the other hand is...well, probably literally all shot to hell.

Is there radiation preventing life from returning, or have all of the complex organic compounds been burnt up, too?

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
Well, off the top of my head, I imagine that the planet's still in a nuclear 'winter' and that it's going to be lethally radioactive for a long time to come.

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
Vasuda prime was already a pretty harsh place to begin with.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline -Sara-

  • 29
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
I wonder if it even holds resources. I can imagine that it still makes a good site to strip-mine (unless more than just subsurface resources would have been combusted and destroyed).
Currently playing: real life.

"Paying bills, working, this game called real life is so much fun!" - Said nobody ever.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
... since when beam bombardment leave heavy nuclear radiations ? VP was just glassed by lots of heat from the beams.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
... since when beam bombardment leave heavy nuclear radiations ? VP was just glassed by lots of heat from the beams.

Well the beams are basically particle weapons. I'd need to actually go through the physics to be sure, but I suspect the beams as well as the impact effects might generate some lasting radioactivity...though I'll admit I'm not totally confident.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
... when did I last saud that FS beams aren't real beams but plasma caught in a magnetic bottle ?

Although I admit I don't know what radioactive effects plasma may have.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
... when did I last saud that FS beams aren't real beams but plasma caught in a magnetic bottle ?

Although I admit I don't know what radioactive effects plasma may have.

Well, you should probably be aware that's only canon in BP, where we said that beams are plasma caught in a magnetic bottle. In terms of FS canon in general we have no idea what beams are.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
Problem is, we don't really know how the planet-blasting beam the Lucy used works. At the very least, the amount of energy pumped into VP's atmosphere during the bombardment should be enough to do some catastrophic damage to the ecosystem...
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
If you were to try and apply hard science to it, which I might add is a bit silly...

Beam cannons are most likely pools of plasma driven direct from the drive core of the fusion reactors.  They pool at the surface of a beam cannon, aligned in an extremely powerful magnetic pinch, and then channeled.  Vastly beyond our own technology, of course, since the magnetic fields required to contain that plasma would require complete enclosure.  The trick would be to stop the particles dispersing quickly once they reach vacuum (plasma is basically a gas).  You could minimize this by forcing them to relativistic speeds, done by exciting the particles and then projecting them through a sufficiently lengthy magnetic bottle ala a particle accelerator.  By the time the dispersal effect has kicked in, the damage has already been done.

The charge up time would be the pooling procedure, bottling them up and getting them even more superheated and excited, essentially forming a kind of self sustaining fusion reaction, crushing the particles tighter and tighter.  The unknown part would be after releasing the particles, how to direct them which is likely the trick the GTVA picked up from the Shivans - some form of superspace manipulation technology.  Slasher beams would be easier to implement since you could produce a pool of particles and direct only those that had a specific stochastic direction producing a weaker, but mobile beam.

As for the actual effects, we already know GTVA reactors use gas giants for fuel, so any beams are likely to be pre or post-fusion helium/hydrogen nuclei with their attendant electrons contained in the flow.  That's relatively easy to figure out the effects, since what you're basically doing is producing a massive stream of alpha and beta radiation together with constantly fusing particles.  It's safe to assume that since the beam is magnificently directed, the GTVA have figured out some way of extending magnetic bottles to combat range, which would mean that the nuclear fusion process would still be ongoing midflight.  The glow of the beam comes from the photonic effects due to faster particles smashing into slower particles, though strictly speaking it should be Bremmstrahlung radiation and simple photonic effects from the overwhelming heat radiating into space - incandescent like the sun.  Which explains the extremely hot core of the beam, which is brilliant white, if not the varying colours on the outside - those may be due to plasma temperature but unlikely.

Then you've basically got a stream of light nuclei and electrons travelling at say 0.9c smashing into other nuclei and shields.  Assuming no net slowdown of the beam and that dispersal is the only problem, the raw kinetic damage of a metric ton of particles travelling at a group velocity of 0.9c assuming I remember my relativistic physics (if I dropped the lambda you don't want to know what numbers would come up) right is tantamount to around 10 gigatons of TNT.  Add on the additional heat damage caused by fusion elements and you arrive at around the right numbers as represented in the original game - surprisingly good of the devs I might add.

What you're looking at then is billions of relativistic electrons and protons and alpha particles all travelling at an average velocity of 0.9c with electrons travelling somewhat faster due to their lower mass which means massive surface ionization of all elements within beam width as well as seismic compression waves and atmospheric heating.  Any fissionables would likely instantly fission under the bombardment of so many charged particles adding to the radiation damage.  Mass ionization of the atmosphere would occur on deep layers depending on beam use.

There probably wouldn't be that much radioactive damage, but atmospheric heating alone would devastate the ecology of the planet, and the resulting seismic activity (likely as a result of sustained beam damage vapourizing through to the mantle) would render most cities and areas unhabitable for years.  By comparison a Sathanas is capable of something like a 120 gigaton broadside.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 04:04:24 pm by Evangelist »

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
That's basically what we've envisioned beam tech to be in BP. If you postulate that some kind of magnetic (or technobatic) battle is required to keep the beam confined, you can even justify the ridiculously short beam ranges - somehow the particles all, uh, diffuse rapidly and unpredictably once the bottle runs out.  :nervous:

  
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
That's pretty much what would happen.  The beam would narrow out as the outer layers that aren't driven by the particles behind them would suddenly expand in an unconstrained direction when no longer constrained by the magnetic bottle.  It is the bottle that keeps them on the straight and narrow.  There are some interesting field equations that produce similar effects - beams actually occur fairly naturally in plasma and relativistic plasma jets are observed around intense magnetic field sources.

You'd only need to somehow figure out a technobabble means of extending the bubble out of a few klicks to produce those kind of energies.  The interesting thing about it of course is the energy would disperse in every direction when not contained but the core of the beam would actually keep going.  There is already a technobabble solution to this in the Freespace universe - additional specific subspace solutions to the Maxwell equations, if you wanted to chuck that into the campaign tech room.

In other words.  If I were the UEF, I've be terrified of what would happen once the GTVA truly started building powerful beam cannons.  Their tech is way beyond the UEF's.  It would also explain why no UEF ships are equipped with them, since the technology would require extensive study of Shivan subspace based technologies to even understand, and that is something the GTVA have had in spades.

That's part of what I liked about Blue Planet, by the way.  I liked the technical explanations :)

It's ironically much harder to come up with a technical explaination for the numerous xaser and laser weapons in the game that seem to have both physical blobs and a travel time but oh well.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 04:33:52 pm by Evangelist »

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
Yeah, what we did was pretend that when it said 'laser' or 'xaser' it meant 'laser-excited' or 'xaser-excited' plasma weapon. Hooray us!

 

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Steam
    • Something
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
In other words.  If I were the UEF, I've be terrified of what would happen once the GTVA truly started building powerful beam cannons.  Their tech is way beyond the UEF's.  It would also explain why no UEF ships are equipped with them, since the technology would require extensive study of Shivan subspace based technologies to even understand, and that is something the GTVA have had in spades.
The one thing I don't quite understand about this point, though, is that Sol was the center of Terran space during the Great War, when all of the data on Shivan technology was collected in the first place.  All of those scans of the Lucifer you collected during "Playing Judas," coupled with analysis of the Lucifer's attacks on allied forces, would have gone straight to GTA High Command in Sol.  They also would have access to whatever pieces of the Lucifer managed to survive after its destruction (probably not all that much, but you never know).  Given how the "fringe colonies" of the GTVA were able to reverse-engineer and implement beam cannons on a widespread scale, I have a hard time seeing how the far more industrialized Sol system couldn't do the same.  The data on those GTI experiments couldn't all have been lost when the node was sealed, could it?

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: War in Heaven Fanspec thread
There are indeed some hints in BP canon as to what happened to that information. Unfortunately the weapons development side of it probably got a bit jumbled up when the Sol GTA was undercut by its own constituent powers.