Author Topic: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven? (Read 190098 times)

PsychoLandlord · **Reply #1100 on:** February 13, 2011, 03:46:51 pm

Well, to be fair, BFReds are (in BP canon) So far in advanced of everybody else that they should effectively not exist. Meson Technology is more (relatively) down to Earth, given the the GTVA appeared to have developed it entirely on their own, which to me means theres probably no reason the UEF cant do so as well, unless they run on some Phlebtonium not available in Sol.

As for beams, who's to say they haven't worked out some method of mimicking beam technology at this point? The problem is that refitting all of your vessels to use said technology is a whole different, and much more difficult and costly, matter entirely. And we already know that Earth's production capability does not allow them to just pop out a new beam-armed super ship, a la Inferno. Your research can be miles ahead of the competition, but if production cant keep up then it's all for naught.

That being said, building a warhead with a delivery system and a detonator is considerably less difficult then building a ship. I'm still probably pushing it here, but I don't feel that any of my points are too far out of the UEF's grasp. Practical applications of a space nuke aside, of course.

Edit: Sorry for the Bold. Mis-click.

Snail · **Reply #1101 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:00:34 pm

Quote from: Mars on February 13, 2011, 03:37:30 pm

Yeah, the GTVA has had access to meson bomb technology for at least 19 years, beam technology for 51, and they have had the Supernova torpedo and the new meson powered beam cannons only recently.

Wait, they had beam technology 1 year before they encountered the Shivans?

Mars · **Reply #1102 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:09:06 pm

I'm measuring from the end of WiH 1, not the beginning of AOA

EDIT, as MatthTheGeek pointed out below, the GTVA has has access to beam technology for LESS than 51 years. The Hades rebellion was the first example of beam cannons on a GTVA ship that we know of. That was produced, as we know, while the Great War was still grinding down.

MatthTheGeek · **Reply #1103 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:09:37 pm

He said "for at least".

Snail · **Reply #1104 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:11:14 pm

Which should really be "at most". It's impossible for them to have had access to beam technology for more than 51 years (barring GTI hijinks).

Mars · **Reply #1105 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:19:00 pm

My point is, getting their hands on a Chimera and its cannons and armor doesn't mean that the UEF will have a well working prototype of either in the near future. It could well be they could produce beams of some sort, but I somehow doubt they'll be rolling out BBlues immediately. The meson reactors might help them producing meson bombs, but they simply haven't had much time to produce the presumably fairly expensive technology.

PsychoLandlord · **Reply #1106 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:24:20 pm

Which is probably the case. In any event, it wouldn't really be a satisfying way for a space combat sim to end a campaign. So I guess that ideas out the window. So we should all hope for an epic and thoroughly stupid and suicidal gigantic final battle, just so we can have the joy of flying in it.

BTW, are the optimized UEF models being held until the directors cut for release? I realize this isn't entirely relevant to the thread, but I couldn't find any mention of it anywhere.

Droid803 · **Reply #1107 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:28:40 pm

As evidenced by The Blade Itself, I'm pretty sure the UEF have no ****ing clue how a Meson bomb works.
Just that it explodes with a very big boom, and that only after the Tevs were kind enough to tell them that.

You don't go from "UNKNOWN DEVICE" to mass producing weapons based off of it in that time frame, especially if you've only seen them blow up and never actually took one apart yourself.

PsychoLandlord · **Reply #1108 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:32:29 pm

We can hardly take the tactical assessment of a random Jovian ship as indication of how far along UEF R&D is, especially as Mars already stated that Earth has its hands on GTVA Meson Reactors, and presumably those ships databases as well.

Droid803 · **Reply #1109 on:** February 13, 2011, 05:00:56 pm

Well, let's put it this way - if R&D doesn't keep the people at the front informed about what they're going against, that's kinda retarded.
You can't expect your people to perform well if they have no ****ing clue what they're going up against.

Sometimes, there's no choice, you just really don't know, but not telling your people about the existence of a powerful tactical weapon? That's stupid.

You don't win a war like that.

That's a good way to get steamrolled.

PsychoLandlord · **Reply #1110 on:** February 13, 2011, 05:28:38 pm

See, that makes perfect sense, but isn't that EXACTLY what Byrne and the rest of the UEF command structure are doing? They have this ultra secret project, and they wont tell anyone about it, only assuring the men on the frontline that they have a perfectly good reason to immobilize half of the UEF's warfighting capabilities.

Granted, I'm sure that whole thing has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, but It still doesn't seem to be too much of a stretch.

Scotty · **Reply #1111 on:** February 13, 2011, 05:30:09 pm

Telling your frontline troops what you're doing with R&D assets is entirely different than telling your frontline troops what enemy weapons do as a result of dissecting capture assets.

The former is an intelligence liability. The latter is common sense.

PsychoLandlord · **Reply #1112 on:** February 13, 2011, 05:34:48 pm

Meh. I need to think my arguments through better. Oh well.

General Battuta · **Reply #1113 on:** February 13, 2011, 06:03:07 pm

Though the frigates' warbooks didn't ID the meson device at Simak Station, the captains did. Pretty much immediately, too.

PsychoLandlord · **Reply #1114 on:** February 13, 2011, 06:14:30 pm

Goddammit. Why didn't I think of that? So this could potentially reinforce my theory that meson weaponry is deployed in sizable quantities against UEF targets, thereby offering up the second notion that Meson reaserch is being conducted and indeed fast tracked by UEF R&D?

Or am I just being too hopeful that I haven't utterly lost at this debate?

Scotty · **Reply #1115 on:** February 13, 2011, 06:34:56 pm

Entirely too hopeful.

Kidding aside, the fact that it isn't in the frigates' warbooks implies that it's NOT widely employed against UEF targets.

PsychoLandlord · **Reply #1116 on:** February 13, 2011, 06:40:59 pm

Actually, you know what would be awesome, as either a little side thing or a Techroom entry in Part 2? A sort of Warbook/Analysis of GTVA spaceraft and weaponry from the UEF perspective. I think it would be kind cool to see how the Feds see GTVA tech, and how much they either get wrong or leave out. The War in Heaven Techroom already does this with some of the WiH exclusive GTVA fighters and capships, IIRC, but it's nowhere near as in depth as one would expect as a tactical analysis.

crizza · **Reply #1117 on:** February 13, 2011, 07:13:21 pm

Well, I wouldn't be surprised, if the Solaris would jump in at any moment in WiH2, blast some GTVA ships with beam weaponry, only to get obliterated by the Atreus using meson anti capital guns...

Mars · **Reply #1118 on:** February 14, 2011, 02:02:14 am

The Atreus is already using meson anti-capital guns

MatthTheGeek · **Reply #1119 on:** February 14, 2011, 06:00:44 am

Well, all blue beams are meson-powered IIRC.

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