Author Topic: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?  (Read 139708 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Our initial design plan includes more streamlined in-mission dialogue, an expanded weapons sandbox, and more gameplay-centric, player-agentic missions. We're also in touch with modelers working to optimize our assets.

Several of the ships present in the UEF fleet in R1 that didn't get any (or enough) screen time will probably see use.

The storyline is already written through the end of BP2 and beyond, so I'm afraid that won't be changing.

If you have weapon or gameplay concepts, however, toss them out here.

No requests to change the name of the campaign to the Admiral Chiwetel 'Batman' Steele Bubble Gum Deficiency Festival will be accepted.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 01:30:27 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: What do you want in Release 2?
What do you mean by "Release 2", a re-release of the Chrysalis+Apotheosis, or the conclusion of War in Heaven?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: What do you want in Release 2?
The conclusion of War in Heaven.

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
I'm a huge Tev, so a mini-campaign from their perspective would be great. But failing that, I'd settle for a mini-campaign following a Capital captain in the UEF throughout the war, starting out commanding a Sanctus and working up the ships through dead man's shoes. Taking inspiration from such things as the Harrington series or In Death Ground/The Shiva Option. I would gladly help write such a campaign, and possibly be able to assist with FREDing (once I had the intricacies of capship command FREDing explained to me)

I have more things, but I'm busy redecorating at the moment, will post them up later.
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Offline starbug

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
There was a federation ship that was used in a couple of test video's on you tube(which i can't seem to find), was also on the website. I think it may have been an older version of the solaris, looked like a carrier made by steve-o, Could that be released, i liked the design of that ship? How about giving the earth forces maybe some kind of prototype beams? I assumed that they would examine that technology from the defecting gtva ships? A few missions from the GTVA view would be cool. Really though bp is pretty much perfect for me, really just want to see that earlier version of the solaris or is the model got problems?
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Offline Spoon

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
No requests to change the name of the campaign to the Admiral Chiwetel 'Batman' Steele Bubble Gum Deficiency Festival will be accepted.
Aaaaawww :(

Our initial design plan includes more streamlined in-mission dialogue, an expanded weapons sandbox, and more gameplay-centric, player-agentic missions.
I've got nothing. Sounds like you guys are on the right track to make WiH2 completely glorious
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Madcat

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
No change requests from me either.
Do whatever you feel like, don't be afraid to try out things but test them well. It seemed to work great for R1!

 

Offline -Sara-

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
REWARD & PUNISHMENT STRUCTURE

A set of events within missions which will influence the follow-up missions. This can involve protecting non-critical vessels, capturing cargo containers which are removed from the combat zone within a set time, not killing a hostage who greatfully gives important info, etc.




EXAMPLES OF EVENTS & REWARDS:

The player is ordered to protect the frigates Gandhi and Tibet in a mission, which are intensely attacked by Tev bombers. The ships are required to achieve a victory in an upcomming battle. Suddenly the cruiser Aristotle flies into the area, 8000 meters away and is under attack by Tev fighters. The player, who flies a heavy fighter, cannot reach the ship in time but can order Gamma wing, a wing of interceptors, to aid the cruiser.

If the cruiser survives, it will aid in a later mission by jumping in close to a fighter screen, causing havok on the surprised pilots before jumping out when taking damage, giving the player a good opportunity to take out the first confused fighter wave.

If the cruiser dies, the player will face the mission the normal way and the Tev fighters attack as planned, doing damage to the friendly ships with their large numbers and their many missiles.



The player is ordered to raid a cargo train, to try and steal missile warheads. They are required to arm heavy bombs against a fleet of capital vessels in an upcoming mission.

The warheads are stolen, the player gets their heavy bombs as intended in the mission.

The warheads were destroyed or the convoy got away, the player has to make do with a lighter type of bomb, which takes more effort to destroy the enemy ships with: some corvettes and cruisers may get away resulting in being scolded by the debriefing.



While attacking several cargo trains, disabling a certain non-suspicious Faustus science vessel will result in getting the option to capture it. Onboard are prototype weapons based on experimental technology.


The player team captures the Faustus, several missions later the high-power energy weapon has been examined. The maul can be upgraded, performing 20% better.

The player destroyed the Faustus or it got away, the player doesn't get the weapons upgrade later on.



The player has to defend the frigate Gandhi again which is a primary objective. It is engaging a destroyer to buy time for a convoy of ships.

The Gandhi survives because the player disabled the destroyers beam weapons, in the next mission it will jump in and attack an enemy corvette which gives the player an opening to guide their bomber wing through.

The Gandhi is destroyed, the player's mission is failed but does not have to be replayed. In the next misison, the bomber wing has to take care of the corvette before being able to fly further.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
What do I want?  More please!

TTS functionality on all dialog would be a big help.  Better descriptions on the weapon functionality too.  I also wouldn't mind a few more missions where you actually feel like player participation is really making a difference - several of the R1 missions, enthralling and fantastic as they were, felt as if it wouldn't have mattered a damn if I just parked my fighter in the geometry of the nearest capship and read dialog for 15 minutes.  The story was great, so I didn't mind, but I miss the frenetic pace of desperately trying to save a capship from wave after wave of bombers and fighters.

Another mission type I felt was somewhat lacking was the ability for the player to make runs against capships - sometimes flying a bomber full of ordinance is just satisfying, or even making precision strikes against capship weapons and subsystems.  The other wings generally did that in BP2 missions regardless of whether I got there or not.  Frankly, I spent the entire game seemingly doing nothing but space-superiority with a little intercept mixed in.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 02:42:16 pm by MP-Ryan »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
What do I want?  More please!

TTS functionality on all dialog would be a big help.  Better descriptions on the weapon functionality too.  I also wouldn't mind a few more missions where you actually feel like player participation is really making a difference - several of the R1 missions, enthralling and fantastic as they were, felt as if it wouldn't have mattered a damn if I just parked my fighter in the geometry of the nearest capship and read dialog for 15 minutes.

We did actually test missions by doing just this. Cost of War (m01) is not self-playing; m02 is; m03 usually is (intentionally though); m04 has no gameplay; m05 is obviously not; m06 is usually not (I tried to make it a bit harder but testers hated me); m07 is not; m08 is if you just run away; m09 probably is; m10 is not; m11 is; m12 is a story mission, same with m13; m14 is not; m15 is not.

Pretty good all in all.

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Another mission type I felt was somewhat lacking was the ability for the player to make runs against capships - sometimes flying a bomber full of ordinance is just satisfying, or even making precision strikes against capship weapons and subsystems.  The other wings generally did that in BP2 missions regardless of whether I got there or not.  Frankly, I spent the entire game seemingly doing nothing but space-superiority with a little intercept mixed in.

We were dissatisfied with FS2 bomber gameplay so we wanted to save it for R2 when we could really give it focus. Believe me, the UEF's Durgas and Vajradhras have been built up as awesome for a reason.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Sara made a good point about the reward and punishment structure. This is something that :v: employed in many FS1 missions. It may be worth the extra time and effort to see it implemented in WiH Part 2.
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Offline Droid803

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Forced Ejection

(the mission)
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 
Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
We want Cutscenes :)

 
Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
We want Cutscenes :)

I wonder what you could possibly want from a WiH cutscene that can't be done in-engine... :D ;7

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
we want MORE DAKKA

I doubt there's anything I could ask for that would be better than what you guys have planned already. And nobody even think about asking for an early release... all the time spent on BP2 simply makes it the polished awesomeness it is (not to mention that BP is one of the fastest-releasing campaigns out there)!

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Reward / Punishment on missions sound good. :D

 
Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
I agree with the reward/punishment, but the reward should be obvious enough that you don't go disabling every science cruiser you find only to not recieve an upgrade.
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Offline Rodo

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
I want this campaign to make me feel that lump in my throat again, like at the very end of AoA... but I guess that's just story-wise... so, nothing so far.

Maybe work on that electro music again?
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
You need to be more careful about overtly presenting the UEF's viewpoint with the campaign and overtly outlining its differences from how the GTVA operates, because nothing hurts a story worse than it looking like it's biased. Now I've said before that a fighterpilot shipboard during active combat is the wrong place to try and be studying the horror of war unless you're careful, and I don't think you were careful enough.  WiH has a bad habit of still being able to hear the author talking when the work is trying to speak. Can I point to anything in particular? No, not really.

I'm sure you can find it yourself since you know the story better than I. Subtlety is rarely the result of concious thought in storytelling.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
You need to be more careful about overtly presenting the UEF's viewpoint with the campaign and overtly outlining its differences from how the GTVA operates, because nothing hurts a story worse than it looking like it's biased. Now I've said before that a fighterpilot shipboard during active combat is the wrong place to try and be studying the horror of war unless you're careful, and I don't think you were careful enough.

Ubuntu citizens are trained from birth to examine things cognitively. We tried very hard to get this across with Laporte, who is emblematic of a society that is dangerously close to thinking itself out of existence.

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WiH has a bad habit of still being able to hear the author talking when the work is trying to speak.

Hard to do when the story doesn't reflect the viewpoints of the authors.

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I'm sure you can find it yourself since you know the story better than I. Subtlety is rarely the result of concious thought in storytelling.

Given the success we've had in keeping the campaign fairly neutral I think we're doing all right. Be careful about confusing a character's statements with the narrative's statements; look deeper and you'll see there's a definite clash.

If you haven't finished the campaign yet I don't think you can grasp the full message here.