[Mr. Vega]

More like just the Vasudans.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by GalacticEmperor


The Ancients monologues tell a parallel story to that of the Terrans and Vasudans. Need I say more?

They tell a parallel story allright... but it deals with the struggle of the Terrans and the Vasudans against each other... not against lesser lifeforms.

The T-V war was a struggle between two evenly matched species to determine wich one was 'lesser'. The amount of subspace activity this generated is what attracted the shivans.

[Kabal]

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80



but we're not (as far as I'm aware) destroying lesser lifeforms... Do you think that the GTVA would allow that? Do you really believe the GTVA would allow xenocide/genocide?

The GTVA might not, but the GTI would. And besides, remember what happened with the Iceni, when the GTVA pulled the blockade. They don't really have the best intrests of the lesser individuals (pilots in this case) in there minds.

[Liberator]

Originally posted by X-Files Addict




The GTVA might not, but the GTI would. And besides, remember what happened with the Iceni, when the GTVA pulled the blockade. They don't really have the best intrests of the lesser individuals (pilots in this case) in there minds.

That's different, those are FIGHTER pilots.  They get paid to put themselves into harm's way.  The GTVA would frown greatly upon the wholesale destruction of entire races.  Besides I get the feeling from the cutscenes and the tech room that the Vasudans were the only Intelligent species the Terrans had encountered until the Shivan Assault of the first Great War.

[Kabal]

I doubt it, but I am paranoid of any government, just look at my username.

[Kabal]

Why would the shivans, with all there big bad technology, travel like 750 light years just to destroy a bunch of tyrant races?

[LtNarol]

"they are the great destroyers, but they are also the great preservers"
think intergalactic police

[Kabal]

Maybe, but such an old, powerful race must realize that destroying all tyranys makes them a tyrant.

[Liberator]

They're only tyrannical if they hang around and hold the local populace under there thumb.

The Shivans only seem interested in destroying a given races main infrastructure.  The rebuilding process results in stronger races overall as the obliterated develop methods for resisting the obliterators.

[TurboNed]

Seems to me the Shivans would be MUCH better off just putting all their resources into fighting their one enemy, rather than splitting up their resources making more enemies that later they'll come up to and say, "Gee, we're sorry we killed all those people - but now you're SO much stronger and you have us to thank for it.  So thank us, get your butts out there, and die for us."

I just don't see them doing that.  (-:

  --TurboNed

[LtNarol]

well, if you look at it this way: the shivans may have far more ships than the GTVA can even imagine but are only a small taskforce is attacking the GTVA.  A similar taskforce could be doing the same to another species elsewhere, and another one to yet another group.  

Consider the Sathanas fleet for example, there were some 87 sathanas, 88 if you include the first one destroyed by the Colossus.  Those things may have been huge, but how many do you think the shivans have?  i'd be willing to say they have plenty big ships that they see as small ships.

As for their enemy, they could be like the shivans: big, numerous, and highly advanced.  They can be the two titans clashing at the center of the galaxy that are now looking for new allies to tip the balance.

[Liberator]

That's a good point.  They could be evenly matched with the Great Enemy and are seeking to find, or create, allies capable of aiding them.

As far as the Ancient Monologues are concerned, history is most often told by the victor, but we've only seen the Ancients POV.  What if The Ancients were the Great Destroyers for thousands of years, then the Shivans came, and the Ancients lost their war.  The Shivan would then have assumed their(the Ancients) place as the Great Destroyers, and now after thousands of years, the Shivans are now facing their final conflict.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by TurboNed
Seems to me the Shivans would be MUCH better off just putting all their resources into fighting their one enemy, rather than splitting up their resources making more enemies that later they'll come up to and say, "Gee, we're sorry we killed all those people - but now you're SO much stronger and you have us to thank for it.  So thank us, get your butts out there, and die for us."

I just don't see them doing that.  (-:

  --TurboNed

Not to mention, that it's in the Human Nature, not to do such things. (going out and dying for a race that just blew up a couple of million people)

[FSW]

Terrans are destroyers. They are parallel to the Ancients.
Just look at us today: because of us, many species are becoming extinct.

Shivans don't like hostility. If you start fighting with someone, the Shivans will come in and start wiping your arse out. They are not tyrants. They are preservers. They kill the strong to help the weak.

[Kabal]

Originally posted by FSW
Terrans are destroyers. They are parallel to the Ancients.
Just look at us today: because of us, many species are becoming extinct.

Shivans don't like hostility. If you start fighting with someone, the Shivans will come in and start wiping your arse out. They are not tyrants. They are preservers. They kill the strong to help the weak.

if shivans didn't like hostility than they would've contacted us when we hailed them. And remember some old guys principle (Darwin I think), "Survival of the Fittest"

[Mad Bomber]

Wait, it's making sense. Perhaps in the Shivans vs. Great Enemy fight, the Shivans know they're going to lose. They see us as a potential species that could beat the Great Enemy in the future, so they do the Great War as a test.

We pass the test, of course.

The Shivans come back, and help seal us off from the Greats before the Greats can run us over. Of course in doing so they perform a Capellectomy, but hey, as long as we're more prepared, the Shivans are happy.

Hey, it's a possibility.

[Kabal]

The only problem with that theory is that the Shivans wouldn't put an entire fleet of ships out just to test a species. The Lucifer would've costed a lot, to have 4 km long shielding. The shivans could've redirected those resources to a half a dozen Sathani.

[Liberator]

If the Great Enemy can take out 87 Sathani, 6 more aren't going to make a difference.

Besides if they've 87 got Juggs, just think how many smaller vessels they've got.  I mean our one Jugg was like dozens of destroyers, hundreds of cruisers and corvettes, and umpteen thousand fighters and bombers.  So the Shivans probably have millions of ships.  The Lucifer fleet probably would have been a drop in the bucket.  Don't mention the Luci's sheilds, she is likely one of their more fragile warships, why else put sheilds on it?  Also, she was probably only invulnerable to the weapsons of the time.  Modern weapons would likely have little problem with her.

[Kabal]

I doubt it. The Luci had some pretty good weapons for it's time. It inspired the beam cannons, and was the main inspiration behind the ancients research. I doubt the Luci, without sheilds, would be an easy target.

[Shiva Archon]

For the GTVA it certainly wouldn't be an easy target (look what one of those did in Derelict, WITHOUT shields).  But considering the massive size of the Shivan fleet and their incredible technology, the Lucifer might have been to the Shivans what an old, broken down Aten or Fenris is to the GTVA.  Maybe the Lucifer and Sathanas are old, outdated models that serve back-line duty or "minor-species elimination" missions.  Didn't someone once post the theory that Sathani are simply gas miners?  I'm not so sure about that, but I doubt the Shivans sent an armada of state-of-the-art front-line warships to overwhelm the piddley GTVA.

Who knows what the real Shivan warships could be fighting on the front lines of their own Great War.

I find it hard to believe that the Shivans still employ the Lucifer design on the front lines over 8000 years after its development.