[Bobboau]

er... wait, I mean Turks need to learn German

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451

[Deadly in a Shadow]

It's crap that I said that, but I think she's right (I'm German so far, most of the Germans don't like her). Crazy what native people in Dresden and other cities think about turks, asians and so on. I know enough turks that do nothing. But they gain money because of frakkin Hartz IV.

[Lucika]

While I don't think that minorities are a root of evil, I am sure that they should do more to solve the social issues than what the liberals propose.

[StarSlayer]

Need more data.  That article lacks any kind of background info on the issue or evidence to support or deny the claim.  Cannot form opinion at this time.

[Bobboau]

the jist of the situation is that immigrant populations are not assimilating into the host population of Germany effectively resulting in pockets of non-Germans living in Germany. the Germans are unhappy about this situation, as Germany should be the place where Germans live. immigrants from Turkey are the stereotypical example, sort of like Mexicans in America, and sence it's effectively the same thing being said there that is being said here but with nations being switched I titled the thread with the stereotypical American response you the situation here.

[iamzack]

People are way too obsessed with nationality. You crossed my line in the dirt, now you have to do everything I say!

[StarSlayer]

By what metric though?

Are they negatively impacting the economy, refusing to pay taxes, serve in the military, disobeying German law?  Not bothered to apply for citizenship? How many generations have their been since they immigrated?  Have there been polls of the immigrant populations showing they have no vested interest in their adopted nation?  Are they immigrating illegally into the country or are they following the government standards for entry into the country?

There needs to supply some evidence that the assimilation process is not working besides crying Mexicans.  You know who also lived largely in neighborhoods made up of their ethnic group?  Just about every group of people that migrated to the United States.  You think most cities have a version of China Town, the North End and Southie for no reason?  Irish, Italians, Chinese they didn't just step off the boat and go poof and turn into WASPs, it was a gradual process.  Furthermore the established population also saw fit to ***** about them arriving as well.  So unless their is actually some decent evidence to support the idea that assimilation has failed in Germany it sounds more like:



Need MOAR data.

[Flipside]

I suppose the thing is, people have the right to be who they are, but a lack of an ability to communicate between the two groups is the real problem.

The world does need a universal language, but how the hell we are going to get there, I haven't the faintest idea.

[The E]

Bah.

Stupid Conservatives.

****ing idiots keep wanting to cater to the "aaaaah, german culture is DYING because it changes" crowd.

[Lucika]

The world does need a universal language, but how the hell we are going to get there, I haven't the faintest idea.

English is the right way to go. Above a certain level, it's knowledge is already necessary. It is not that complicated, either. I think that my generation - or the one after - will make the knowledge of English even more imperative as it is today.

[Flipside]

English does offer a degree of flexibility that is unavailable to many languages, but I suppose the problem isn't so much lingual as social and nationalistic, English is seen in many countries as a language that is forced upon them to 'fit in' to the International community, and that is not only true, it is a Good Thing (tm). Many countries are afraid that they would lose some degree of identity if they allowed their own languages to fall into disuse, but, once again, that may be a good thing, from a certain perspective, we'd have to sacrifice a part of many identities in order to form a single one, regardless of which language was used.

Our diversity, we have been taught, is our friend, I'm inclined to agree, but if you look back over history for 8000 years, there's very little testable evidence of that, diversity has constantly been a source of strife, productive strife, in the large scale, but still strife from the perspective of those at ground level.

I really don't have a clue how to address the problem though, we praise our lack of unity one minute, and decry it the next, it's all very confusing...

[General Battuta]

One of the big problems with English is that it's stupid and makes no sense.

[Flipside]

Yup, that's one of its major weaknesses from outside, we take rules for granted that really are quite arbitrary and nonsensical, but we've grown up with them.

[Bobboau]

but it's big  advantage is that it's currently got the most speakers

[StarSlayer]

It's pretty obvious "Western" English mixed with Chinese should be the world language.

[iamzack]

but it's big  advantage is that it's currently got the most speakers

I thought English had the third most speakers.

[Mika]

If I can learn English, there shouldn't be many nationalities that couldn't - Finnish is as far away from English as you can get. As a general language, English would be a good choice as large fraction of human kind are already able to speak it. But I guess we will indeed see Chinese and English, being spread on two halves as general languages. I understand about seven languages, so no Chinese for me despite their protests when I visited there. There's only that much vocabulary I can fit in my head, and Chinese would leak over.

Immigration causes always trouble, I think Germans are mainly angry because Turkish don't respect their laws despite that being one of the requirements for being let inside the country. French likely so, since a rather large percentage of their population is already third generation immigrants that haven't fit in the society and don't respect laws.

Sometimes I can't help thinking that the coldness of this country is actually a bless in disguise.

[Thaeris]

The world does need a universal language, but how the hell we are going to get there, I haven't the faintest idea.

English is the right way to go. Above a certain level, it's knowledge is already necessary. It is not that complicated, either. I think that my generation - or the one after - will make the knowledge of English even more imperative as it is today.

The ability to communicate with those across the globe with no substantial language barrier is a wonderful thing, but at the same time, I appreciate and enjoy the language diversity spread across the globe. If I make an analogy to different programs which ultimately do the same things, it would be that all languages essentially convey the same things, but will do so differently and in some cases will do a cartain task better than a different language. The beauty of English of course is that if such a condition exists, we assimilate it into our speech.

So, although I will never protest the rising English-speaking population in the world, I will instead make the argument that there ought to be a more substantial educational base for teaching language, at least in the US. I think many of my North American comrades would be inclined to agree.

[Flipside]

The English-speakers in the UK are pretty much the same, I'd even go so far as to suggest that the UK has the worst record for it. I'm pretty much mono-language, I can just barely speak a smattering of French, possibly enough to convey 'I'm a silly English git who got lost because he couldn't read the street signs properly'.

We need a Universal translator for our own planet.

[StarSlayer]

Before we dive headlong down the "Esperanto Tangent" is their any actual evidence for multiculturalism in German being a failure?  Some of the other articles on this issue I've dug up seem to indicate other branches of the German gov't and industry are trying to push for less stringent immigration laws to fill a shortfall of skilled workers that are needed to keep the economic recovery on track.