[S-99]

Today was a nice day, i bought five 0.9 watt and four 2 watt led bulbs. I bought them to completely replace the power draining seven 22 watt fluorescent bulbs i had. 154 watts got replaced with 12.5 watts of electricity usage for just lighting. Lighting got about 91% more efficient.

The thing about led bulbs is aside from being an awesome technology finally making it to light sockets is that they aren't as bright, aside from using a lot less power (they also last a really long time). 0.9 watts is about 70 lumens, 2 watts is about 100 lumens. Compared to some 530 lumens in your 22 watt fluorescent bulb. Since they're dimmer, they're advertised as accent, ambient, and decor lighting only.

That didn't stop me. It'd be nice if they were brighter, but really, they provide enough light.
I'm just really happy about it is all I mean, that is one hell of a change in the electric bill i made (and something that uses 91% less electricity than what i had previously is sort of astounding).

[Wanderer]

Around here moving from incandescent light bulbs to fluorescents or LEDs has pretty much zero impact on electric bill (or rather to bills in general).

[Klaustrophobia]

lights are generally not a huge portion of your electricity usage, unless you leave them all on 24/7.

[perihelion]

This is true.  The vast majority of household electricity usage, at least down here in Texas, is air conditioning.  By a huge margin.  If you are looking to make tangible improvements to your household energy efficiency, more attic insulation and weather stripping are probably your best return on investment.  Low-emissivity double-pane windows made a definite difference with my house, as well.

That said, I made the switch off from incandescents a few years ago.  I do not regret it.  As an engineer, higher efficiency is always a goal I feel is worth striving for.  But it made no difference to my electric bill so far as I could tell.  It just isn't a big enough fraction of my total usage.

[Nuke]

we get free utilities with this apartment, so i use 100 watt bulbs in everything and i leave them on all the time. im getting rather sick of hearing green this and green that. so this is my act of blatant defiance (at least as long as i dont pay the bill).

but seriously, psychotically bright leds. i think these go up to the 700 lumen range and run at about 5 watts with a 1 amp peak current. leds like constant current (voltage may wander to meet the current needs) though so good driver circuitry is essential. these things also require a beefy heatsink and optics to spread the light around.

[Snail]

we get free utilities with this apartment, so i use 100 watt bulbs in everything and i leave them on all the time. im getting rather sick of hearing green this and green that. so this is my act of blatant defiance (at least as long as i dont pay the bill).

[Galemp]

Bah. Efficient use of energy is the single most important step towards energy independence. LED bulbs are fine, but you need to insulate, insulate, insulate.

Forget coal, nuclear, wind, solar, oil. The cleanest, cheapest, and most efficient power source in the world is the power that's already being generated, pumped to your home or office, and wasted.

[MP-Ryan]

While I've installed energy efficient bulbs in most of our house (potlights being the exception, they'll be replaced as they burn out given they're $12/bulb!), there is absolutely no difference in the electric bill.

In fact, I tried an experiment where I shut down the desktop computer when not in use for a month - the difference in the electricity bill (which is between $70-80 monthly) appeared to be roughly $3, though that may have also been a result of less use of dishwasher and/or washer&dryer that month.

For most people, the stove and dryer are the two biggest contributors to the household electricity bill - for those with electric heating/cooling, that also contributes heavily.  Lights, TVs, computer, etc all make little difference to the bill.  If you look, you'll probably actually find that the majority of the bill is based on delivery and service fees, not actual electricity usage (depending on the local regulatory scheme).

[Nuke]

id say cf bulbs would have a much more devastating environmental impact than the incandescent bulbs we've been using for the lase several decades. main problem being their mercury content. ive also found their life span to be only a fraction of what was advertised. id like to see them all replaced with led bulbs as soon as possible. leds last forever if you drive them correctly. they are incredibly cheap to manufacture (aside from the totally insane 5 watt variety, and even then it might be worth it). the drive circuitry (essentially a current regulator) cant be any larger or more expensive then the electronic ballasts used in cf bulbs. i also like leds, they are the coolest electronic component since the mosfet.

of course im sure all the light bulb manufacturers who have invested heavily in cf bulb manufacture would want to retool their lines for manufacture of led bulbs. also considering they will need to be replaced much less often, which would really hurt their profit margins. they could make it up by also manufacturing optics and fixtures required to diffuse the light from leds. i very much doubt that would happen. were stuck with these cf bulbs for quite some time. i wont use them as long as i can get unlimited power for free (hell im on hydro and this is a ****ing rainforest).

[Mika]

That didn't stop me. It'd be nice if they were brighter, but really, they provide enough light.

One comment: a lot of people underestimate the need for light in the office work, though I'm not saying that you do. Sitting daily in front of a computer doesn't do good to one's eyes, even less so with insufficient illumination. I'm currently using 60 W incandescent in my living room, clearly it isn't strong enough, and I'm considering adding another lamp so that I have something what compares to two 80 W incandescent bulbs.

The other bad thing with LED illumination (in some cases) is the bright spot coming from the small surface element, make sure strong static illuminators aren't in your field of vision or you'll suffer from afterimages for a long time. But this same problem happens with spotlights too.

Around here moving from incandescent light bulbs to fluorescents or LEDs has pretty much zero impact on electric bill (or rather to bills in general).

Ditto here. Though I'm replacing the incandescent bulbs at the rate they break down to (likely) LEDs, if a suitable bulb comes available and I actually happen to believe in the advertised optical power. CF bulbs are a problem, and definetely worse from the environmental point of view than incandescents. Though, most LEDs use InGaAs compounds, so arsenic is part of them too - they don't mention that very often, do they? Well, at least the LED response time is faster than with CF bulbs.

LED drivers, that's one thing too.

My own energy consumption has been declining since the peak in 2008 (3050 kWh) to 2618 kWh in 2010, I live in a 60 m² apartment. Not using sauna would decrease my electricity bill down to about 2000 kWh - or even lower as I bath more than average person. EDIT: Actually, let's see what it does, so here goes: 3050 kWh, with about sauna 4 times in a week. A single bathing session in a week takes about 350 kWh in a year. So, by a quick calculation, I could still lower the energy consumption by 1400 kWh - that would take it down to 1600 kWh. I don't know how much the computer would do.

By the way, this is coming from a person who lives 160 km from the Arctic circle. EDIT: I don't use electricity for heating, there's a district heating available that uses warm water. Funny that you guys mentioned double windows, triple windows have been the standard for years here.

[Nuke]

The other bad thing with LED illumination (in some cases) is the bright spot coming from the small surface element, make sure strong static illuminators aren't in your field of vision or you'll suffer from afterimages for a long time. But this same problem happens with spotlights too.

this can be fixed with optics and frosted glass fixtures. you want to expand the light to cross a large surface of frosted glass, so while the light may be coming from a very small point or points, it gets spread out within a large fixture and diffused even further by frosted glass. diffusion is key to making leds effective for lighting. its like sticking an led inside of a ping pong ball. the whole thing will glow with a pretty uniform brightness.

Though, most LEDs use InGaAs compounds, so arsenic is part of them too - they don't mention that very often, do they? Well, at least the LED response time is faster than with CF bulbs.

electronics in general are made of some very nasty things. i found it comical how they went berzerk over lead solder, while there were many much worse compounds found in electronics components. of course most parts these days are tiny, usually containing less than a pinhead worth of hazmat in each. still it adds up, and also considering that most parts are completely non reusable and considering how many electronic devices we throw away every year. i think more effort needs to go in recovering the materials in spent electronics, sence many of them are rare, expensive, and of finite supply.

[Bobboau]

at some point in the future I bet we are going to start mining landfills.

[S-99]

I don't leave the lights on all the time where i'm at anyway. It probably will hardly impact the electric bill, but i know for a fact now that my new lighting situation will not be a noticeable affecter of the electric bill. I run a very efficient place. One of the reasons i like it is because it leaves so much in the area of potential improvement.

I do my hardest to maintain a $40 a month electric bill. And right now the new challenge is maintaining that same amount in winter. Hell if i'll come close to $40 in winter. I'll probably get it close to $60. Which is a hell of a lot better than most people's electric bills all year round. In the place i live, moving over to led's will have a noticeable affect on the electric bill because of the idea that i know for a fact lighting is not a consumption issue.

As far as moving over to different kinds of lighting to reduce the electric bill, it does have some merit. Such as moving over from incandescent bulbs over to fluorescent. In this case what i did was more minor of a change than that since fluorescents in the first place are still a great choice for efficient lighting (and really, 91% more efficient than my last lighting set up).

As far as alaska goes. There's the toyostove which provides heat as long as i have fuel oil. Fuel oil, electric bill, and occasionally extra minutes for my phone are the only things i pay for. I also don't pay for wood, at least not yet for a while. I've got plenty of standing dead trees which is pretty much pre-seasoned wood since they've been standing dead for a couple of years (this place also came with a crap load of cut wood which was free, i also raid the transfer station for any wood there). It really doesn't take much wood to keep this place warm either, and while the wood stove is going the toyostove doesn't fire off. For fuel oil, it only takes 20 gallons ($60 worth) will keep this place warm for a month by itself (during winter), but the wood stove really curves that relegating the toyostove only to fire off when no ones home. Where i live is well insulated, but it can be and is being improved upon still.

For the roof i ended up scoring all of this 4 inch thick free foam board that i cut up into sections and completely covers the area where the roof sits on this house. All walls are insulated and have vapor barrier. What i'm doing right now is putting up corogated cardboard on all of the walls and ceillings which will also add extra insulation and also get the vapor barrier sucked up against the walls creating an airseal. Cardboard is free where i get it, i have one big wall completely done, still have a long way to go with that. More cardboard can be stapled onto the existing cardboard if more insulation is desired (**** paying for drywall). After that, there's sealing what few other heat leaks i can think about that are here which are mainly the two doors which can be sealed much better than they are now. The last thing i did so far was move all of the water pipes to the inside of the house. My pipes wont burst underneath the house.

What i would do if i had the money would be to spray on a 6 inch layer of spray foam insulation all along the outside of the house. Common to occasionally see houses like this in alaska, but it's really expensive. This place is super cheap to live in. I'm one of the few well off people in winter with fantastic low bills in alaska and more than good enough for -50F. Other people envy this place.

at some point in the future I bet we are going to start mining landfills.

I get to mine through all the trash i want for free before it gets taken to the dump once a week at the transfer station. I furnished this place with all of the nice things people didn't want anymore for free. Microwave, nice and heavily insulated refrigerator, foutons, desks, chairs, and once a laptop i gave to a friend (i also got a really nice pair of boots). Having transfer stations open to the public up here is great, and it really encourages recycling. I however am not one of the people who will get inside of a dumpster and start sifting around the **** in there (some people are more serious at the transfer station than i am). What usually happens is during summer, construction projects going on in the local area that get finished with extra supplies literally drop them off at the transfer station. Lumber that i usually burn or build with (it's great fire starter) and more times often than not fiberglass insulation still in the packaging. Another good time to go there is when people are doing they're spring cleaning. Sometimes a person will drive up with a car, leave the keys in there, and it's free for the taking (once or twice a year this happens). What's really fun to do is check out the transfer stations near the rich neighborhoods.

[Nuke]

im not one to hesitate pulling something cool out of the dumpster, assuming i dont have to jump in to get it. i dont make a ritual out of it. i know people who know where all the good dumpsters are and go diving twice a week. i only really look when i take out the trash. its ridiculous the kind of stuff you find. you can get the same kind of stuff if you know any packrats who dont mind letting some of their stuff go.  

at some point in the future I bet we are going to start mining landfills.

pretty much as soon as someone comes up with a seperation process. might also involve aging a landfill for a few centuries. i also pointed out you could probibly mine the oceans for plastics.

[Mika]

I do my hardest to maintain a $40 a month electric bill. And right now the new challenge is maintaining that same amount in winter. Hell if i'll come close to $40 in winter. I'll probably get it close to $60. Which is a hell of a lot better than most people's electric bills all year round. In the place i live, moving over to led's will have a noticeable affect on the electric bill because of the idea that i know for a fact lighting is not a consumption issue.

My electricity bill for a month is about 15 € (216 kWh/month), summer or winter. There is additional 10 € coming from the transfer costs. Winter might be slightly more expensive due to staying more inside and using more computer.

But insulation will help tremendously. I'm continuously surprised when I read about the lack of insulation in Alaska. It strikes me as really odd. I would have thought people appreciated warm houses in Northern latitudes.

[S-99]

Most people in alaska are weird. If people can make do, then they will. Such as people making enough money to off set the need for more insulation by always being able to afford wood and fuel oil. After that, there's a lot of dumb people that just simply wont insulate more.

My electricity bill in winter normally goes up because of the above ground water line which is about 70 feet long from the well shed. Heat tape is really the only thing that uses a lot of electricity during winter. I re-insulated the water line in a better manner this time. After that, there's the blast heater for the well shed which keeps the well from freezing. During summer, these two things are not needed and are unplugged.

The well can't be moved obviously. If the well were inside the house too, then that'd be more desirable, and would remove the expenses of the heat tape and the blast heater. Putting the water line under ground isn't really feasible. I'd have to chop down 10 or so trees, restructure the well shed, and not to mention the trench that would need to be dug and other supplies. I more or less deal with the water line, but i also like it where it is. My other idea for getting around needing to dig a trench would be to put a 7 foot tall by 7 foot wide by 70 feet long hill of dirt on top of the water line. Which would replicate the water line being underground so i don't need to plug in heat tape.

[Mongoose]

Man...our family's electric bill last month was something like $400, though I think that was a bit of an upwards aberration.  Clearly we're not nearly as efficient as most of you guys.

(And no, we don't even have CFLs, much less LEDs.  Just good ol' incandescents.)

[pecenipicek]

*looks confusedly at all the electricity bills*


we got around $50-$70 per month here. zagreb, croatia.


lessee, 2 TV's that are on almost 24/7, 3 pc's that are on pretty much 24/7, 2 floorstand 300w lamps, on mostly after dark falls, in times when central heating farts out, they double as room warmers, one big freezer, one fridge and a few other lamps that are on most of the time. mix of incadescents and fluo lamps. Oh, and one LED lamp next to my table, in a, well, table lamp.

problem is that LED's here costs around $20 apiece, and almost all are just spotlights. good for a table lamp, since i tend to fiddle with small stuff and i killed more than a few fluo lamps by whacking the table lamp by accident


[/early morning rant without a point, just to post sumfink]

[Mika]

Most people in alaska are weird. If people can make do, then they will. Such as people making enough money to off set the need for more insulation by always being able to afford wood and fuel oil. After that, there's a lot of dumb people that just simply wont insulate more.

Yeah, but I would expect that people would realize that the insulation buys them time when the heating goes down. The another positive factor in the equation is the significant reduction of cold draughts inside the house. Finns hate having cold houses.

[Nuke]

throwing money at the problem is an american tradition.why spend money on insulation when you can just buy more fuel and leave the heater on all the time.