[Shrike]

*sigh*  I'm glad some people are still willing to help keep the human race alive.

[Odyssey]

Originally posted by Shrike
*sigh*  I'm glad some people are still willing to help keep the human race alive.

Like, eh, Carl here:

http://ambience.i8.com/carl2.jpg

(sorry, I just had to do it didn't I?)

[Nico]

Originally posted by CP5670

Also, this is yet another bit of experimental evidence for one of my ideas: in the minds of the masses, age automatically implies wisdom and this rule can be applied for anyone with almost pinpoint accuracy. Individuals will of course deny this, but watching their actions can show it to be true.

Why would most people deny it? Nobody denies that, accepted young people who are sure it's not true ( just like you, you thought you were different? ). And I'll tell you why: coz it's true, mind you.

[CP5670]

Why would most people deny it? Nobody denies that, accepted young people who are sure it's not true ( just like you, you thought you were different? ). And I'll tell you why: coz it's true, mind you.

So, by your reasoning, an 80-year old provincial villager is more intelligent than a 20-year old Einstein. A nice example of the typical human mind here: going by what is sensed rather than what is deduced the whole way. Also, you need to have a more exact definition of "truth" before making such statements.

I mean those decimals... accurate enough.

lol, actually I was really thinking about putting some more decimal places in there since it is not really accurate by my standards. (I always prefer exact values )

Odyssey: It looks like the Shivan is about to eat up that woman or something.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
So, by your reasoning, an 80-year old provincial villager is more intelligent than a 20-year old Einstein. A nice example of the typical human mind here: going by what is sensed rather than what is deduced the whole way. Also, you need to have a more exact definition of "truth" before making such statements.

See, there's the foolishness of your own thinking: there's a difference between knowledge and wisdom. You might have more knowledge than a provincial 80 years old, but trust me, you're not even close as wise.

[CP5670]

As I said before, at the most fundamental level of understanding knowledge and wisdom are one and the same, and in the final theory that explains the workings of everything, both will be incorporated similarly. (I've spent years thinking about the details of this and can go on arguing for a while )

But let me rephrase that: an 80-year old lunatic who has spent his whole life raving about hallucinations he has seen is "wiser" than the 20-year old academic, right?

[Styxx]

Wisdom: Proper application of knowledge. And you can only use extreme, twisted examples to try to prove your point, and end up proving the opposite by denial. Your logic is flawed.

[CP5670]

Wisdom is defined as the general accumulation of learning, but it tends to have an added connotation to it: wisdom usually refers to the affairs of humans, while knowledge is more generalized to the workings of reality and existence.

And you can only use extreme, twisted examples to try to prove your point, and end up proving the opposite by denial

A major law of logic:
If one example can be found that contradicts a given rule, the rule becomes invalid.

Your argument that older="wiser" may be true in the generality, but as many other sociological laws of today, not enough factors are taken into account to give an answer very close to the truth. It can be applied to masses of people, but not individuals. (said this earlier, btw )

[Styxx]

So, you're basically claiming that you're wiser than any other person that's older than you?

Check the dictionary for a definition of "common sense" then. Oh, wait - it cannot be defined mathematically, so it can't be considered. Get back to your math bubble.

[CP5670]

Actually, I am saying that the older="wiser" is a general sociological rule and not a precise formula.

Check the dictionary for a definition of "common sense" then. Oh, wait - it cannot be defined mathematically, so it can't be considered. Get back to your math bubble.

Common sense can be defined as the judgement of an average person that is practical but not necessarily logical. It only has any significance in contemporary human affairs, and therefore can essentially be discarded when the entire universe and long peroids of time (entire history and future of humanity) are taken into account.

As for the rest of the stuff, it's a pretty silly argument.

I need to go now, but I'll be back to argue with you in a few hours.

[Nico]

Originally posted by CP5670
Actually, I am saying that the older="wiser" is a general sociological rule and not a precise formula.



Common sense can be defined as the judgement of an average person that is practical but not necessarily logical. It only has any significance in contemporary human affairs, and therefore can essentially be discarded when the entire universe and long peroids of time (entire fistory and future of humanity) are taken into account.

As for the rest of the stuff, it's a pretty silly argument.

I need to go now, but I'll be back to argue with you in a few hours.

my staement is that for math i would ask you coz you study that. for anything else (from cooking an egg to talking about politics or anything else, in fact), i'm sure you're completly ignarant next to an old guy, coz you've thought your stuff for years? he has thougt his stuff for more years than you. He might not be right? your maths won't make you more right. Basic everything by maths won't work. you won't have a job coz you're better than another guy. The guy who is 25 will have the job, even if it's about physics or anything, and you won't when you're 20, even if you think ( and even if you REALLY are) better than him on this particular subject. That doesn't prove you wrong, I agree. But it's the way it works. Bad argument? in our world, it's the only one which works, so i can, w/o maths,  tell you your future: if you don't change your mind, you'll suffer.
That said, another point: you're 15. The age or rebellion, the age when you KNOW everybody else is wrong, and not you. I was the same, i bet Styxx did the same, everybody was like that, everybody at this age have been told countless times they would change their mind, and everybody argued the way you do to prove the others wrong. I've been through this, and so i know you'll come up with another argument to prove that you're not like that, that you're different. I know, I did the same. i wasn't a nerd or anything at your age, i was a... lonesome guy ( ). No friends, nothing, i was always on my own, I simply conidered I was able to do anything I wanted by following my own beliefs, whetever they were. And I surely didn't agree my parents or any "lunatic 80 years old guy from the country" was wiser than i was. you could have argued about this for days, you couldn't have convince me I was wrong. You can contest the things around you, you can contest the facts they don't match your standards. But at the end, you're the one obliged to adapt, coz you can be sure the world won't adapt for you.
now for me, the argument is over, coz as I said I know your state of mind ( thing you won't agree, of course ), and I know I won't convince you. I don't agree with what you think obviously, but I know it's normal you think this way, so rather than trying to tell you what you'll become, i'll just let the time do it for me. Voila, now I'll let Chticks go on with that if he feels like it, but I'm off this now

[Zeronet]

I hate maths. Still for some reason im in set A1, so i must be doing something write.

[Styxx]

Definately I couldn't have said that better than you did, Venom. It's what I wanted to say all along, just didn't have the right words.

[Kellan]

GAAAAAHHHHHH!!!! My EYES!!![/i]

[Stryke 9]

This is possibly the stupidest argument I've heard all day.

Older people tend to have nothing but contempt for younger. Same goes in the reverse. White people have historically considered themselves fundamentally superior to black people. Heterosexuals have generally scorned gays. Men think they're smarter than women. And all have responded in kind. It's called bigotry, and it's how the insecure make themselves feel better. If you think you're "wiser" than me just because I'm one or two years younger than you, you're not only wrong (at least, in the reason you are), but you're being an ass, and that's twice as bad. It's not teenagers or young adults who always start wars; It's not children who go into long, endless arguments over whether Bill Clinton should get the death penalty or not, unless they've learned it from their parents. It's not us who have midlife crises and spend all the money we've essentially enslaved ourselves for decades on convertibles, and I for one have CERTAINLY never opened a 100kb batch file email attachment, then deleted it once I realized I'd just infected the computer with a virus, removing the way to find out just what it was and how to remove it. Older people aren't necessarily any less intelligent, but you CERTAINLY aren't any "wiser", unless wisdom is some intangible thing that has no application on reality, abstract thought, or perceptible brain activity.

Go ahead. Argue away. You're hardly demonstrating much in your favor.

[CP5670]

Okay, time to start arguing again.

my staement is that for math i would ask you coz you study that. for anything else (from cooking an egg to talking about politics or anything else, in fact), i'm sure you're completly ignarant next to an old guy, coz you've thought your stuff for years? he has thougt his stuff for more years than you. He might not be right? your maths won't make you more right. Basic everything by maths won't work. you won't have a job coz you're better than another guy. The guy who is 25 will have the job, even if it's about physics or anything, and you won't when you're 20, even if you think ( and even if you REALLY are) better than him on this particular subject. That doesn't prove you wrong, I agree. But it's the way it works. Bad argument? in our world, it's the only one which works, so i can, w/o maths, tell you your future: if you don't change your mind, you'll suffer.

um, yeah, so what's your point? That certainly does not even make a credible attempt to refute my previous points. I have already said that this is how the world currently works, but due to the theory of technological darwinism, it is changing, albeit somewhat slowly. But even I will grow old eventually, and then this argument would essentially fall.

That said, another point: you're 15. The age or rebellion, the age when you KNOW everybody else is wrong, and not you. I was the same, i bet Styxx did the same, everybody was like that, everybody at this age have been told countless times they would change their mind, and everybody argued the way you do to prove the others wrong. I've been through this, and so i know you'll come up with another argument to prove that you're not like that, that you're different. I know, I did the same. i wasn't a nerd or anything at your age, i was a... lonesome guy ( ). No friends, nothing, i was always on my own, I simply conidered I was able to do anything I wanted by following my own beliefs, whetever they were.

I have probably been told of this "age of rebellion" more than anything else I have been told; while it could well be true, it is not much of a rational argument that has any basis for this type of discussion. For example, I could blatantly state that you are just plain wrong, and you would not be able to say anything about it, but it doesn't make much of an argument.

Also, I never said I know for sure that everyone else is wrong (in fact, the first derived assumption of my ideas implies that it is not possible), but when I have the postulates of logic and everything stemming from there to back up my points while most others have their age ( ), it can be seen why I adhere to my own beliefs.

And I surely didn't agree my parents or any "lunatic 80 years old guy from the country" was wiser than i was. you could have argued about this for days, you couldn't have convince me I was wrong. You can contest the things around you, you can contest the facts they don't match your standards. But at the end, you're the one obliged to adapt, coz you can be sure the world won't adapt for you.

As you said, it is practically impossible for me to impress anything upon humanity as a whole due to the rule of resistance to change, and also because I am definitely no public speaker. Strange and complicated ideas will not convince the masses of anything. (i.e. one of the reasons people adopted religion at the beginning of civilizations was not only the fact that the people required its two fundamental purposes, but also that following it was simple for the common man) You need a "rabble rousing" Hitler type of personality for that, which I do not have. The reason I want to write that book is that ideas are permanent as long as they can be interpreted, whereas humans do not last very long, and I think that ideas should be available for analysis to humanity for much longer than a single person's life.

Also, neither the world nor I (or anyone else) have to "adapt" to the world in the sense of our ideas; we as a species have progressed because of a diversity of ideas, especially in subjects that we know little about. (this is not so applicable to areas in which humanity has lots of knowledge, but even there it has some meaning at the very core)

Again, I post a famous quote that I put in that other thread:

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." -Max Planck

This is precisely how the world can be seen to work and is a special case of the rule of resistance to change.

now for me, the argument is over, coz as I said I know your state of mind ( thing you won't agree, of course ), and I know I won't convince you. I don't agree with what you think obviously, but I know it's normal you think this way, so rather than trying to tell you what you'll become, i'll just let the time do it for me. Voila, now I'll let Chticks go on with that if he feels like it, but I'm off this now

Sure; hey, I thank you for this, as it has definitely been instructive to see the workings of the common mind. Anyway, you'll see what will happen in ten years. For now, keep 'em coming!

BTW it looks like that other huge spam topic finally got locked.

[Shrike]

What, the HLP road trip one?  I locked it once it was finished.

[CP5670]

So uh...how was it considered to be "finished?" (although it's a good thing you locked it anyway )

[Nico]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
This is possibly the stupidest argument I've heard all day.

Older people tend to have nothing but contempt for younger. Same goes in the reverse. White people have historically considered themselves fundamentally superior to black people. Heterosexuals have generally scorned gays. Men think they're smarter than women. And all have responded in kind. It's called bigotry, and it's how the insecure make themselves feel better. If you think you're "wiser" than me just because I'm one or two years younger than you, you're not only wrong (at least, in the reason you are), but you're being an ass, and that's twice as bad. It's not teenagers or young adults who always start wars; It's not children who go into long, endless arguments over whether Bill Clinton should get the death penalty or not, unless they've learned it from their parents. It's not us who have midlife crises and spend all the money we've essentially enslaved ourselves for decades on convertibles, and I for one have CERTAINLY never opened a 100kb batch file email attachment, then deleted it once I realized I'd just infected the computer with a virus, removing the way to find out just what it was and how to remove it. Older people aren't necessarily any less intelligent, but you CERTAINLY aren't any "wiser", unless wisdom is some intangible thing that has no application on reality, abstract thought, or perceptible brain activity.

Go ahead. Argue away. You're hardly demonstrating much in your favor.

look who's talking the "i will make the revolution and lead anarchism" guy. You've never figured out teenagers did not make any of the troubles you mention coz they have not such powers. And obviously you blatantly forget about gang wars, rapes, murders and all the stuff they do, which is the same but at their own level of possibilities. I never said  I  was wiser than CP or you, coz I don't consider myself wise. But you sure have no lesson to teach me, you who can argue only by insulting or agressing people. Arguing with CP is, somehow, a pleasure, coz he sure does show more wisedom than you, he's not being an ass, as you like to say. As you say, I could go on and on, but I dispise your agressiveness, and won't waste my time discussing with you.
edit: I was about to correct my english mistakes, but I won't, I don't care

[Shrike]

Originally posted by CP5670
So uh...how was it considered to be "finished?" (although it's a good thing you locked it anyway )

When I decided it was finished.