[Nemesis6]

I've been wondering - Is the Freespace series a niche series, or is it the genre that few people are interested in? Freespace's gameplay is pretty straight forward, and difficulty doesn't seem like that big of a problem, either, so how come there's so little interest in space sims, not to mention the freespace series? I've read a bit about how, due to Freespace 2 not bringing in enough sales, this put the entire space simulator genre on ice, with nobody willing to put effort into making a good game that simply didn't appeal to the masses. So please, do enlighten me, am I crazy in suggesting that there should be a whole lot more attention to this genre?

[dANGER boy]

Out of all the space sim games, I feel confident in saying that Freespace 1 & 2 have the biggest followings for a variety of reasons.   Unforunately, the space sim genre died out because of the tastes of gamers.  Without making this into a discussion bashing on current video game tastes, the industry now focuses on shooters games.  Sure, there are RPGs, MMOs, music games, and the likes, but if you look at the sheer number of titles of violent first-person shooters, you can see what people want.

I agree, there should be more attention to this genre.  Unfortunately, no publisher is willing to risk the investment because of the risk of it being a commercial flop.  Let's be honest - FS2 was a commercial disaster.  Probably the best space sim game ever published did terribly b/c of some poor decisions in marketing and such.  It is a genre that had its time and left a wonderful mark on history.  Now it has been replaced by cliche shooters that all feature feature the same enemies, the same weapons, the same plots, etc.

Thank God for the SCP.

[Polpolion]

Thank God for the SCP.

That's right. God save the SCP.

Freespace survives because it is ****ing awesome. If I had to pin it to actual reasons, I'd say that the incredible expanse of the game's modability complements the fact that the story is unfinished and so mysterious so well that players naturally stick with it for a while when they play it.

For reasons why it's not more popular, I'll give you reasons why my roommate doesn't like it: There are too many buttons, it makes you dizzy, the briefings are too long, it's too hard to install, FSO is too hard to install (you heard me), it's really hard, the coop multi isn't properly balanced, and the story makes no sense.

These are the kinds of people that walk in when you're playing Vassago's Dirge with full MediaVPs and say "oh that's cool" and then have you download, install, and configure the game for them only to have them skip all of the briefings/training missions/debriefings, skip all of the nebula missions, want to play through on multi the first time, and then they tell you "that was a horrible game" after we finished when they don't even know the names of any of the ships. I will never forgive them for that, and I will never forgive myself for letting them do that.

Or more simply, there just aren't enough people that both enjoy space shooters and are willing to put the time in to play it.

[Topgun]

Too many games these days are made for drunken frat boys. I blame halo.

[SypheDMar]

I have a hard time believing that people aren't interested in knowing ship names when they play. The folks I introduced that don't like the game generally can't understand the number of buttons, but they read the Tech Room like a Wikipedia article. They weren't too interested in the multi, for the same reason that they weren't too good in the game.

[Nemesis6]

I don't get the button complaint. Mouse handles shoot and movement. Keyboard handles targeting the nearest target, targeting what's direct ahead, targeting subsystems / weapons on an enemy ship. Then there's the wingman command system. Bank left and bank right. Finally there's the energy system, and the shield equalizer button and that's pretty much it. That's not a lot. I mean, we're not talking simulation-style controls. Damn it, if this is a real complaint, people must have ADD. Freespace is still pretty much an arcade-style game, with some complicated stuff thrown in (destroy the cruiser's beam cannon so it can't hurt the ship that supports you, redirect shields to the side that's weak from a missile hit, etc)

Halo indeed... Man, if this is complicated to people, no wonder the PC gaming scene is in decline.

[Drogoth]

I think the problem today is the accesebility of consoles. You go buy a game, plug it in, play. With PC's there's installation, configuration, sometimes theres hiccups in the software, modding is the casual gamers nightmare, first to download and then forget designing (I have some ideas for mods, but haven't a clue about making one. I lack the skill unfortunately  )

Mix in the fact that the hardware in the PC market advances so quickly. Consoles have a turnover rate of what? 5-6 years these days?

That's a fairly long time. The cost of maintaining a modern PC to run the latest games is WAY higher then buying an xbox, paying for live, and buying the latest games.

[QuantumDelta]

I have a hard time believing that people aren't interested in knowing ship names when they play. The folks I introduced that don't like the game generally can't understand the number of buttons, but they read the Tech Room like a Wikipedia article. They weren't too interested in the multi, for the same reason that they weren't too good in the game.

Fixable!

[FUBAR-BDHR]

It seems like the majority of people just want shoot, die, respawn, cutscene, rinse, repeat, move on to the next game.  If you have to think to play it's too hard.  I gave up on buying games when I purchased 5 or 6 and went through them in one week.  They were all the same with different locations and graphics.  How many games have the same Normandy map with only some minor changes and graphics updates? 

[Satellight]

People want McDo games.

They buy them, play them, trash them.

We, as a community, have respect for the creators (in proper sense : those who produce something by their hands : coders, modelers, FreDers...) and then, respect for their creations (new ships, improvement of the code, new campaigns) even if sometimes it falls into debate about what is good and what is not.
But nothing's worst than a fan. We must understand those who don't care about our own passion. They were not trained to it ! When I show some friends the -Sara-'s or MetalDestroyer's awesome vids on Youtube, they are  ... But I also know that they will have some difficulties to understand our passion, bathing themselves into it. FreeSpace is a question of passion : it can give very much, but it's also very demanding.

And I think , as a 1998 player, that there is too much key to know to easily handle the game.
Not especially for me (I'm used to) but if the number of key to press to play a game exceeds the number of buttons on a XBoX or PS3 gamepad, they will run away.

Immediate pleasure is the LAW today. I know there are exceptions. If not, this community won't have new members. But the market wants immediate pleasure. Poor today's players ! So beautiful games, and so...empty. We're living in a videogaming vacuum.

[Colonol Dekker]

Galaxian mod? Hook the console heads?

[BengalTiger]

(I have some ideas for mods, but haven't a clue about making one. I lack the skill unfortunately  )

Well then get the tools (QVP, PCS2, notepad, photoshop, perhaps a 3D modeling program) and play around. It's pretty easy to suck a stock ship out of a vp file, then edit the textures, make a moddedship-shp.tbm file for it (the easiest way is to copy the original ship's entry from ships.tbl); edit a few numbers and there you have it- your first mod.
Once you get bored of that, try making your own model, or a mission or something. If you don't give up, in 2 years from now you'll be working on a really big mod with dozens of custom made ships, dozens of missions, and maybe a dozen team members.

[karajorma]

Yep, I've seen people say that they lack the skill often and then go on to try and find that they actually do. The entry level skills are not that hard to get. You'll never know unless you actually try.

[General Battuta]

ITT people talk about console games without knowing **** about them

games like assassin's creed brotherhood and red dead redemption are deep and complex both in terms of narrative and gameplay. the console crowd has the attention required for some meaty stuff. if space sims are dead, it's not because people these days are all ADD pleasureseekers.

[Titan]

I prefer PC over consoles for one reason: Free stuff. 

[Hades]

I prefer PC over consoles for one reason: Free stuff. 

you are the cheapest person known to man

you must be a crab

[Polpolion]

I prefer PC over consoles for one reason: Free stuff. 

you are the cheapest person known to man

you must be a crab

Not really, considering a good PC is several times more expensive than a good console. He prefers other people's PCs over consoles.

Also, @Bat: Complexity and depth of gameplay and narrative doesn't say much about the learning curve and presentation, which are the real problems here. I haven't played RDR so maybe I'm just being silly, but I'd be willing to bet that it's easier to install and configure RDR than FSO. Also, how is story presented in that game? Cutscenes or briefings? I have a hunch it's more of the fact that people would rather watch a movie than sit around and listen to some person tell you what's happening. People aren't are all ADD pleasureseekers, but I'd be willing to bet that most of them are lazy.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I'm still stuck in the scrolling shooter era.

If EVE Online is considered a space sim rather than an RPG in space, maybe FreeSpace doesn't have the largest fanbase in its genre.

[Liberator]

DON'T.
YOU.
DARE.

Compare FreeSpace to EVE.  The only thing they have in common is that they take place in space.  EVE players will knife you if they get the chance.  The only way to win in EVE is not to play.

Freespace was the last great Space Sim.  The last one I bought was a crappy Eastern Euro import called Project: Freedom, the game play was...OK, but the story was awful and not told well at all.

I'm holding out a lot of hope that Black Prophecy will be as good as it looks in the trailers.  It could spark a revival of the Space Sim genre and possibly a new FS.

[Dragon]

There are still games with elements of space sim, but they're all pretty much Elite-likes (X series, Parkan 2, etc.). Project Freedom has nice graphics and simple gameplay, but it's rather average in terms of storyline and controlls (I don't like the mouse flying, FS had a much better balance between "arcade" and "sim" controlls).
Also, I don't really understand the idea behind consoles. They are expensive, not customizable and useless for anything besides gaming. PC is superior to them in almost every way.
As for Black Prophecy, it's another online mutiplayer game, so nothing I'd be interested in (again, luduciriously expensive, no singleplayer storyline, no modding, and you have to keep paying to keep playing).
IMHO, for a true revival, a real space sim with good graphics, entertaining gameplay and interesting storyline. Something like FS3, or a next Wing Commander (with WC3-level masterpiece as a storyline).