[Nemesis6]

**** just got real - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_no-fly_zone#Action_taken_by_international_forces

Some days before, the rebels shot down one of their own jets - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ccc_1300563244
Note: audio is fake.

[Herra Tohtori]

Has there been any sort of confirmation as to whom the downed aircraft belonged to?

Also, it could have just as well been a mechanical failure as well as damage from anti-aircraft guns...

[Mobius]

If I got it right, people saw the MiG trailing out smoke, and that would be a sign of shooting.

[Herra Tohtori]

If I got it right, people saw the MiG trailing out smoke, and that would be a sign of shooting.

No, what it's a sign of is that the aircraft was smoking. The flames also indicated to an acute viewer that the jet was on fire.

That alone doesn't give any real indication that it was hit by ground fire.

It's possible, even likely considering circumstances, but even so it isn't certain. Aircraft engines sometimes fail, especially obsolete fighter jet engines whose maintenance might not have been especially stellar. It could have been a bird strike, engine fire, turbine/compressor wing separation or what have you. The BBC video wasn't especially clear on what exactly happened to the aircraft.

[IceFire]

The slightly longer version of the video does show what appears to be a brief flash near or on the aircraft before it starts to smoke and light on fire. It's possible that it was hit by AAA fire. If I were to make a slightly educated guess... that would be it. It does not appear to have been hit by a missile.

[Mobius]

Reporters mentioned AAA fire, but as you pointed out we still don't know what the true nature of that crash is.

[Unknown Target]

I worry that with all the action, Japan's extending crisis will fall by the wayside.

[Mobius]

That is difficult, but still possible.

[mxlm]

Maybe, but Japan has the third largest economy in the world. They're not exactly in desperate need of aid, so even if donations drop off sharply due to shifting media coverage, they'll be fine. If they aren't fine, it'll be for reasons media coverage has nothing to do with. Probably.

[Kosh]

Maybe, but Japan has the third largest economy in the world. They're not exactly in desperate need of aid, so even if donations drop off sharply due to shifting media coverage, they'll be fine. If they aren't fine, it'll be for reasons media coverage has nothing to do with. Probably.

Actually they are because it has one of the highest debt to gdp ratios in the world.

[IceFire]

I don't know about you guys but I went down to my local bank the other day and donated some money to Red Cross for Japan relief. I know they need it and I know they will be able to get back on their feet before too long... but they definitely need the help.

In a completely different way the Libyan people need a completely different type of help and I think we're doing the right thing. So far *touch wood* the coalition military efforts appear to be going very well.

[Dilmah G]

I saw pictures posted a day or so ago of the downed Flogger. Last I read, it was a Loyalist aircraft shot down by Loyalist forces. I thought from the picture that perhaps it was a MANPADS hit, more than anything else. AAA fire could've also caused the damage, but either way it ended badly for the pilot.

[Titan]

The dude promised a long war. Little does he know that Suddam Hussien said the same thing in 1991. Coalition air strikes reduced his military to nothing before ground forces even fired a shot. It took only a couple weeks.

And that was 20 years ago.

[Dilmah G]

Yeah, I'm personally seeing a Kosovo parallel.

[Mongoose]

So, Vladimir Putin: massive douche, or massive douche?

[headdie]

So, Vladimir Putin: massive douche, or massive douche?

Russian politician and former Russian intelligence nuff said about his public stance on the west

[chief1983]

Plane appeared to be rebel/East Libya/whatever, shot down by the same side it was flown by.  The video footage showed them cheering, thinking they'd shot down a Gaddafi plane, when it later turned out it was on their own side.

Now, is anyone else just completely floored that Western powers are intervening?  I mean, it's not just the US this time, the whole bloody UN passed the resolution now.  And this is a UN with an Obama/Hillary-led US!  One minute, the whole middle east is saying we should do something, now I'm hearing that there's already cover-ups of civilian death stories going on all over the place ever since the cruise missile and B-52 bombings.

[Mongoose]

So, Vladimir Putin: massive douche, or massive douche?

Russian politician and former Russian intelligence nuff said about his public stance on the west

Sometimes I think the only way Russia will restore itself to a general state of sanity is by waiting 20 or 30 years, when all of the old guard who are still playing out the Cold War in their heads have died off.

And yeah, the Arab League's reactions have been rather annoying.  So you give full support to the West intervening, then cry foul when we do exactly what you were supporting us to do?

[MR_T3D]

From BBC:

The resolution authorises "all necessary measures" to protect civilians in Libya, but Mr Putin said there was no logic in killing civilians to achieve that end.

Seems to me that Putin isn't being a douche.

I think that they'd rather that action were better defined, as they don't want to see west wreck another nation's government and military, leading to an iraq-like situation breeding terrorists.

[chief1983]

I'm wondering the same thing.  At what point do you stop being a civilian, and become a combatant?  If you help combatants, haven't you gone beyond protecting civilians?  This is one of those quagmires I keep hearing them talk about.