Author Topic: A WoD dev blog  (Read 171298 times)

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Offline Lorric

  • 212
You're not actually going to put that in the game though, are you? Way, way too powerful.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
It can always be balanced so that it's not too powerful.  And we currently have the tech to do this sort of trick (F-14 Tomcat + AIM-54 Phoenix) so why wouldn't it exist & be used in the future? :)
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
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Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
It can always be balanced so that it's not too powerful.  And we currently have the tech to do this sort of trick (F-14 Tomcat + AIM-54 Phoenix) so why wouldn't it exist & be used in the future? :)

No skill though. I really dislike games which are all about homing missiles and not dogfighting. I know it's impractical that in the future there'd be dogfighting. In the future you might be locking missiles on targets thousands and thousands of miles away. No fun for a game though.

EDIT: Maybe if it was toned down and you could only use it once. Might bring a tactical element in for when you use it.

 

Offline Commander Zane

  • 212
  • Spoot Knight of Anvils
No skill though. I really dislike games which are all about homing missiles and not dogfighting. I know it's impractical that in the future there'd be dogfighting. In the future you might be locking missiles on targets thousands and thousands of miles away. No fun for a game though.
And heat-seekers defined with "untargeted heat seeker" are any different?

If anything, I'd say those are even worse. At least with the aspect-seeking missiles you have to wait for a lock instead of firing at anything and everything at your leisure.

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
No skill though. I really dislike games which are all about homing missiles and not dogfighting. I know it's impractical that in the future there'd be dogfighting. In the future you might be locking missiles on targets thousands and thousands of miles away. No fun for a game though.
And heat-seekers defined with "untargeted heat seeker" are any different?

I don't know what that means. I googled it, and funnily enough, look, it's Spoon:

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=80253.5;wap2

I don't know what the untargeted heat seeker actually is though.

I'm trying to keep the destruction you can cause with missiles down to a minimum in my campaign I'm making. I'll probably keep the player with those basic low power homing missiles you start the game with.

 

Offline Commander Zane

  • 212
  • Spoot Knight of Anvils
It means you don't need a target selected for heat-seekers to aquire lock. With mods like WoD and DE and their swarm heat-seeking missiles, you just point in a direction and click whenever you feel like it; the missiles take their pick of targets.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
It can always be balanced so that it's not too powerful.

EDIT: Maybe if it was toned down and you could only use it once. Might bring a tactical element in for when you use it.

:D
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
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Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
It means you don't need a target selected for heat-seekers to aquire lock. With mods like WoD and DE and their swarm heat-seeking missiles, you just point in a direction and click whenever you feel like it; the missiles take their pick of targets.

Hmmm. They don't have such destructive potential though. Usually it's one ship you're targetting. My main issue is if it comes to a point where there's pretty much no need to fire your primary weapon at all, or rarely, because you're just taking stuff out with missiles. I sometimes get turned off by the supply ship in FS2. Why bother engaging enemies when you can just sit there and wipe everything out with unlimited supplies of long range missiles? If I ever make anything for Freespace 2, there'll be no supply ship. Ideally I want the meat of a mission to be chasing stuff guns blazing.

 

Offline An4ximandros

  • 210
  • Transabyssal metastatic event
Tone it down? Doesn't WoD stand for Weapons obscenely Destructive? ;7

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
How to make multi-locking missiles? Scripting or new table option?
New table option, but the build is, AFAIK, WoD team exclusive, at least for now. I think it'd be in the trunk in no time if everything works allright though.

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Tone it down? Doesn't WoD stand for Weapons obscenely Destructive? ;7

It just seems strange to me that Spoon is restructuring due to the Cyrvans being overpowered, and then the first thing we see since the announcement is that superweapon.

Thinking of new things for WOD, eh...

Wonderful Orgasmic Destruction! :lol:

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
You're not actually going to put that in the game though, are you? Way, way too powerful.

GTFO.

Besides, it hasn't seemed to occurred to you that if it can be used by you, it could also be used against you...
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
You're not actually going to put that in the game though, are you? Way, way too powerful.

GTFO.

Besides, it hasn't seemed to occurred to you that if it can be used by you, it could also be used against you...


What's with the GTFO?

Oh, it has. I don't want the game to devolve into spamming missiles and countermeasures.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
If you haven't clicked the link, you will never understand.

If you have, and are still complaining, you will REALLY never understand.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
If you haven't clicked the link, you will never understand.

If you have, and are still complaining, you will REALLY never understand.

I did click it. Watched for a bit. Yeah, stuff blowing stuff up with missiles. Not fun to play though in a game. Exactly what I don't want.

Anyway, we should get to you now. I know to expect bad things every time I see you show up in a thread I'm in. Why is that?

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
I daresay because I don't suffer fools gladly and you are eager to play the fool.

This sort of thing shaped the conceptions of a generation on how air/space combat should be portrayed. Wings of Dawn is a product of, and for, those of that generation. The first release included pseudo-Itano weapons, the first of which was a direct reference to this sort of thing (Remember Dawn's loadout with the IT-AN-0?), and it's been stated before that Spoon was doing the best he could with the engine at that time. If you haven't realized yet that this is one of the most cherished anime space/aerial combat tropes in existence, and its appearance in Wings of Dawn is not only inevitable but something that nearly everyone who enjoyed this mod would want, then you're dumber than a brick.

I'd also point out I've actually played good games that feature mechanics like this; Battlecry comes to mind.

EDIT: I mean, jesus, I was able to link you nearly 20 minutes of compiled Itano Circus scenes stretching across something close to thirty years of anime, almost NONE of which involve people getting taken out like punks . (Otherwise we'd have forty minutes from Macross alone.) This is deeply embedded. The fact you didn't pick up on the significance of that does not speak well of you.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 06:26:15 pm by NGTM-1R »
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
I daresay because I don't suffer fools gladly and you are eager to play the fool.

This sort of thing shaped the conceptions of a generation on how air/space combat should be portrayed. Wings of Dawn is a product of, and for, those of that generation. The first release included pseudo-Itano weapons, the first of which was a direct reference to this sort of thing (Remember Dawn's loadout with the IT-AN-0?), and it's been stated before that Spoon was doing the best he could with the engine at that time. If you haven't realized yet that this is one of the most cherished anime space/aerial combat tropes in existence, and its appearance in Wings of Dawn is not only inevitable but something that nearly everyone who enjoyed this mod would want, then you're dumber than a brick.

I'd also point out I've actually played good games that feature mechanics like this; Battlecry comes to mind.

That doesn't help. In future, stop the insulting and be nice, or I'm just going to ignore you, because nothing productive ever seems to come out of talking to you. Others challenge me on things, but they are polite, and even often win me around to their way of thinking/prove me wrong.

I don't know much about anime or Spoon's motivations. I just know what I like. I've always found it amusing that I'm one of the mod's biggest fans, while completely oblivious to a lot of the stuff it is built upon on the anime side. I relate to the Star Control 2 influence, and the fact I find it the most enjoyable of all mods I've tried to play and for the most part like his characters.

I need to find out what weapon he picked to bear Itano's name. For me, that's the first time I've heard that name. I don't know if the other weapons have significance in their names. I have seen Spoon relate to this missile stuff before, but in non-WoD threads. If he works it in, then I just have to hope I still enjoy the game. However, don't be so elitist. I don't think Spoon is making this game for anyone but himself. If interests of others coincide, good for them. If not, so be it. If the new WoD ends up being all missile based, it's highly likely I won't enjoy it. So be it I guess.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
EDIT: I mean, jesus, I was able to link you nearly 20 minutes of compiled Itano Circus scenes stretching across something close to thirty years of anime, almost NONE of which involve people getting taken out like punks. (Otherwise we'd have forty minutes from Macross alone.)

That this took me under twenty seconds should probably have been significant. You had all that you could have needed to educate yourself on how much meaning this particular behavior has to the people who made and who love this mod right at your fingertips. I literally gave you a living history of why the Itano Circus is coming and why nobody is going to listen to your objections so you should probably just let it go. And you waved it off with "Yeah, stuff blowing stuff up with missiles."

And you now wish to plead ignorance of why this trope is significant to Wings of Dawn, and demand politeness and respect. You could have educated yourself, and you could have earned politeness and respect. You chose not to.

Reap the whirlwind.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 
Lorric, Wings of Dawn clearly uses a lot of anime tropes, most notably missiles of doom.  The Dragonslave and Heaven's Fire are proof of that, and Spoon has already tried to do an Itano Circus in his mod with his various autonomous fire-and-forget swarm missiles.  You must not have used the Hazel and the heavy swarm missiles in the mission where you have to defend the Prometheus Frame, because that would have certainly told you Spoon fully intends to allow us to fire Macross Missile Massacres.  And, oddly enough, you're complaining about a nerfing to these missile barrages because they now require an aspect lock?
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
And you now wish to plead ignorance of why this trope is significant to Wings of Dawn, and demand politeness and respect. You could have educated yourself, and you could have earned politeness and respect. You chose not to.
Isn't it sad we live in times when politeness is something that needs to be earned? In my grandfather's time, such simple things were pretty much granted. It's a shame people can't just be nice to each other like they once were. Don't worry, I know very well who is to blame.
You must not have used the Hazel and the heavy swarm missiles in the mission where you have to defend the Prometheus Frame, because that would have certainly told you Spoon fully intends to allow us to fire Macross Missile Massacres.  And, oddly enough, you're complaining about a nerfing to these missile barrages because they now require an aspect lock?
Actually, the Hazel (the ship in the demonstration vid) is somewhat of a special case. It's a heavy bomber/missile boat. Dogfighting in it is an exercise in frustration, doubly so if you're packing an anti-cap gun. Normal combat will stay gun-focused, I believe, since to demote guns to secondary weapons would be to waste a revolutionary damage resistance system. WoD is great, because it offers you a lot of options on how you want to play it. So, you could fly a heavy fighter, spamming missiles and hoping no Cordi gets you from behind, or fly a nimble dogfighter with rapid-fire guns and hope you don't get dragged into a capship's killzone. I don't think that's gonna change, if anything, the options will be expanded.