[Commander Zane]

Don't forget, the Shivans are unlikely to get rid of their cruisers any time soon. I can't speak for the Cretheus, but we have a similar light ship in TI (The Harpy) which is euipped with anti fighter weaponry only (3AAAfs, 2 flak, 2 Prom-S), lightly armoured, quick etc. etc. What they do well is engage cruisers in groups of three or more - they move fast enough that even a locked on beam can't track them for very long before they move out of the line of fire, and the hulls are so small that slashers tend to pass across them too fast to do any devastating damage.

I know this isn't the right thread to say this, but I like that design, but I think it would be more fitting as a pre-GTA ship.

[Qent]

What a strange thing to say. It's as if we'd never any designed any missions with these ships, and thus we have to make bald assertions about how they perform, instead of informed statements based on our experience with them.

You also are personally invested in being correct on this, and have possibly designed the missions and the specs in such a way that they don't logically progress from existing frames of reference. It's quite possible that intentionally or unintentionally you've provided them plot armor, from where we're sitting.

But... this cruiser can evade a wing of fighters. That sounds like a ship full of win right there.

[Mars]

I can easily see it being fast and maneuverable-  strike craft style. At 112 meters, it's only about twice the size of an Ursa. . . but an Ursa has shields too.

[Qent]

Yes but an Ursa has to worry about interceptors' primaries. A cruiser should only worry about the initial missile swarms before the Shivan attackers get destroyed.

[Mars]

Yes but an Ursa has to worry about interceptors' primaries. A cruiser should only worry about the initial missile swarms before the Shivan attackers get destroyed.

I don't know how you figure; a cruiser has to worry about primaries. I don't mean that in a bad way, but I simply don't follow.

[Commander Zane]

Yeah like the Maxim strikes employed by Artemis wings.
How quick would any cruiser sans the Lilith last against that?

[MatthTheGeek]

By itself ? Not long. But neither the UEF nor the GTVA ever send a cruiser without fighter escort. And WiH has shown that Artemises hate to be under enemy fire. Even if it takes some time to kill them, the fighter escort would disperse them long before they can do any meaningful damage.

And, again, you don't deploy a wing of bombers against a gunboat. They're for large and important targets.

[Commander Zane]

They'll still get shots off, and they send more than just one wing in any mission they're used in.
While instead they're used for stripping the weapons off larger ships from what I remember, since Cruisers weren't used as often as say the original FreeSpace 2 campaign, they always close the distance enough to start striking the hull before going down. And a few seconds is enough for 16 streams of Maxim fire to start withering away that Cruiser's hull.

[Qent]

Yes but an Ursa has to worry about interceptors' primaries. A cruiser should only worry about the initial missile swarms before the Shivan attackers get destroyed.

I don't know how you figure; a cruiser has to worry about primaries. I don't mean that in a bad way, but I simply don't follow.

Any interceptor that gets behind a Cretheus will find itself outranged and outgunned by its pulse cannons. Shivans don't do Maxim strikes and don't display much primary power in BP canon. Against the UEF, if I'm a Cretheus and force them to commit a wing of bombers or gunships, I'd jump out and call it a success.

[MatthTheGeek]

They'll still get shots off, and they send more than just one wing in any mission they're used in.
While instead they're used for stripping the weapons off larger ships from what I remember, since Cruisers weren't used as often as say the original FreeSpace 2 campaign, they always close the distance enough to start striking the hull before going down. And a few seconds is enough for 16 streams of Maxim fire to start withering away that Cruiser's hull.

I already answered to that :

you don't deploy a wing of bombers against a gunboat. They're for large and important targets.

Much less 16 of em. And unless they have an AWACS to plot precision jumps, they'll jump far enough for the fighter cover to blow them space high.

[Qent]

Not that it has any bearing on the discussion, but that's four bombers with quad Maxims.

[MatthTheGeek]

Meh. I considered a stream of Maxim implied a full bank already

[Scotty]

I can easily see it being fast and maneuverable-  strike craft style. At 112 meters, it's only about twice the size of an Ursa. . . but an Ursa has shields too.

I may be making an unfounded assumption, but doesn't the Cretheus have shields too?

[-Norbert-]

I also don't think those new light cruisers will be deployed alone either (with or without fighter escort). From their profiles I guess they are more likely to be deployed in groups of three or four or at the very least pairs.

[Commander Zane]

Four Cretheus (What's the plural?) in a group...

[Destiny]

I've been wondering, the massive turrets on the Hecate reminds me of the battleship guns we have. Is it a possibility to have those turrets fire some kind of anti-ship projectile that does several thousand damage per projectile (higher than TerPulse, lower than beams) and fires at a intermediate rate with a bit of range behind it, instead of those little flak? Would be pretty cool...but then again, the Hecate's still going to be forced to carrier role, even if it had those anti-ship guns.

I can easily see it being fast and maneuverable-  strike craft style. At 112 meters, it's only about twice the size of an Ursa. . . but an Ursa has shields too.

I may be making an unfounded assumption, but doesn't the Cretheus have shields too?

The wiki says HP - 7k
Shields - 0

If the Cretheus can get shields, then all ships should...why only shield fighters and bombers? Really odd stuff.

Cretheuses I guess?

[Commander Zane]

Some, or most (Or was it all?) Transports and Freighters have a shield mesh, I think power requirements would play into why big ships don't use shields.
I think it would make sense if the Hecate multiparts were actually something that played the part of something being fired from a massive battery.

[MatthTheGeek]

You can only shield fighters and bomber because, as far as I understand shielding technology, the energy requirement and size of the device increase exponentially with the size of the ship to shield.

But, like Mars said,

At 112 meters, it's only about twice the size of an Ursa...

Advances in Tev shield tech could enable a ship of this size to be equipped with a shield system. Doesn't mean that's what will happen in WiH2. BP crew are the ones choosing the stats.

[PsychoLandlord]

As always, the proof is in the pudding, as they say. Until a GTVA task force that has an AWACS platform goes into combat against a Shivan force, there is no way to know for sure.

Goddamn this thread moves fast. Thank you for your answer, E.

And it was directly stated during one of the Lucifer cut scenes that shielding anything Cruiser size and above was simply too difficult for too little gain, hence why the Lucifer's shields were such a big deal.

[Destiny]

Hmm, I see...if a shielded Lucifer was impossible to destroy, I thought they'd learnt and try shielding their own capships and putting lotsa reactors on them...guess not, hah.


You're getting my point there, Commander Zane, heheh. I just FREDed a Hecate vs Hecate, both with all of their multiparts with the Narayana's Mass Drivers. Needless to say, it was...beautiful, although they died pretty quick until I put an extra zero behind their hitpoints to make the battle last longer. I'd use the Orion's turrets which has three guns, but...it's kinda small, whereas the Hecate's are huge and would be perfectly sensible for a anti-ship weapon.