[Drogoth]

So, I loved WiH, finished playing through it for the billionth time today...

But just like the first time.. I still want the GTVA to win.

Am I like, the worst kind of person? I get the sense I'm supposed to be rooting for the UEF

[The E]

Given that the narrative is ambiguous on purpose, no, that's quite normal.

[MatthTheGeek]

Yes, yes you are a horrible person.

[Destiny]

I'm a horrible person too because I support the Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance. I know how you feel Drogoth, haha.

[General Battuta]

The narrative is supposed to provide both sides with humanity, sympathy, and a reason to fight.

[Logistics]

The narrative is supposed to provide both sides with humanity, sympathy, and a reason to fight.

From a strategic perspective, I understand this.

From a more practical note, however, I'm wondering a bit about  the GTVA's execution of its decision to war. Even in the earliest stages of the plan, with the 14th's planned maneuvers, the aim was clearly to force any issue from the barrel of a gun (Err...focus of a plasma beam). The Elder's were clearly in a talking mood and had gone out of their way to set the stage for negotiations. While Ubuntu may be seen by the GTVA as a long term economic threat, in the short term there was a real possibility of negotiating a staged transition between the two systems. If the talks didn't work out, the GTVA could eventually resort to force if needed. Instead, they jumped the gun, literally. I think that says something about them.

[Nohiki]

I for one justify GTVA's goal, simply because any fraction was terminated as well, why should SOL be given an exception. They aren't even in distress, they live happily. The only thing they did wrong was the initial attack. They came, yelling "surrender", while they should have asked if the system will accept the GTVA without a fight, and fire the gun only if given negative answer. Howgh

[The E]

I for one justify GTVA's goal, simply because any fraction was terminated as well, why should SOL be given an exception. They aren't even in distress, they live happily. The only thing they did wrong was the initial attack. They came, yelling "surrender", while they should have asked if the system will accept the GTVA without a fight, and fire the gun only if given negative answer. Howgh

Yeah, because asking a sovereign state to give up its independence is such a good move.

[Nuclear1]

I for one justify GTVA's goal, simply because any fraction was terminated as well, why should SOL be given an exception. They aren't even in distress, they live happily. The only thing they did wrong was the initial attack. They came, yelling "surrender", while they should have asked if the system will accept the GTVA without a fight, and fire the gun only if given negative answer. Howgh

Sol wasn't a part of the GTVA from the beginning.  The GTA/GTVA dealt with the NTF/Regulus Syndicate/Antares Federation uprisings because they were parts of the GTVA that had declared independence.  The UEF was a government separated from the GTVA for decades.

[Ypoknons]

Another round! Encore!

[Spoon]

So, I loved WiH, finished playing through it for the billionth time today...

But just like the first time.. I still want the GTVA to win.

Am I like, the worst kind of person? I get the sense I'm supposed to be rooting for the UEF

You are a good person and I like you.

Yes, yes you are a horrible person.

Boooo, go away feddie!

[Luis Dias]

I find myself lurking for no one.

GTVA are lying, amoral, psychotic bastards, and feds are not-so-pacifistic-but-pretending-to-be hippy new age lazy naive fools.

**** them both. Can't wait for shivan fleet to arrive and just wipe this garbage out of the galactic floor.

[-Sara-]

While I'm closer to a 'Buntu' personally, I can imagine the GTVA's reaction. Imagine your nation has been under attack twice and you barely survived. Now, a great and potential ally is telling you to hold hands and trust on the greater beings of the cosmos and reaching into your spiritual self while you'd hope they're ready to aid you in battle. Since you can't get them to help you, you can instead steal their war machines, resources and manpower to still have a large increase in effectiveness the next time this enemy attacks you.

Ofcourse one wonders if it wouldn't have been a more wise move to have a treaty with the UEF, which have resulted into not only sharing technologies but also probably proving to the Vasudans that humankind is more mature than expected. In turn the UEF would probably have accepted the GTVA, finding it's alliance inspiring and a good example. The UEF has proven that regardless of the Ubuntu philosophy, their fleets stand strong. It seems the GT(V)A has become very pragmatic and (almost) paranoid.

[General Battuta]

hippy new age lazy naive fools.

Yeah, that society built on the constant expansion of industry, technology and exploration is pretty lazy.

[Luis Dias]

hippy new age lazy naive fools.

Yeah, that society built on the constant expansion of industry, technology and exploration is pretty lazy.

That's just how I feel, it wasn't a "rational" debunking. I agree that there's an incompatibility between what I feel as "lazy" and their massive industrial output. But that part I can blame on the writers

[Drogoth]

I guess the reason I support the GTVA would be that I have doubt's not about Ubuntu's resolve to fight the shivans, but the very fact that building destroyers is highly controversial prior to the GTVA's arrival in Sol makes me doubt that the GTVA would have the strength to even have a chance at survival if Ubuntu were allowed to spread. Which I guess is where the Security Council is coming from in their invasion.

Good to know that I'm not the only one who supports the Tevs though lol, I remember in the mission where you attack e Carthage I was so raged thinking I was going to destroy it.... and super hyped when the attack failed haha

[The E]

I guess the reason I support the GTVA would be that I have doubt's not about Ubuntu's resolve to fight the shivans, but the very fact that building destroyers is highly controversial prior to the GTVA's arrival in Sol makes me doubt that the GTVA would have the strength to even have a chance at survival if Ubuntu were allowed to spread. Which I guess is where the Security Council is coming from in their invasion.

Destroyers were controversial because in pre-WiH Sol, they weren't needed. After or during WiH, the situation is a bit different, just as the situation would be different if the UEF had to administrate a territory the size of the GTVA. You are making the same mistake several other people have made, namely assuming that the UEF would make exactly the same choices it could make in Sol when it would have to deal with the same situation the GTVA deals with.

[PsychoLandlord]

I understand the GTVA's motivations, especially considering their whole reason for still existing is built around the fear of some (very real) cosmic bogeymen, but I feel they jumped the gun with this war, no matter how much the situation was FUBAR'd following the 14th's little inter-universal jaunt.

I suppose I support the UEF more simply because it's them having their homes invaded, and you see this from their perspective during the campaign. As far as looking at the big picture behind both Governments... I dunno. The GTVA is easy to understand, but the UEF, being based around what strikes me as Scientific Mysticism with a bit of Gandhi thrown in for the hell of it , yet also having an incredible industrial base and enormous productivity, seems like it could be a massively dangerous force if there was ever a shift towards more war-oriented policies. It's a bit creepy when I think about it.

[Logistics]

I guess the reason I support the GTVA would be that I have doubt's not about Ubuntu's resolve to fight the shivans, but the very fact that building destroyers is highly controversial prior to the GTVA's arrival in Sol makes me doubt that the GTVA would have the strength to even have a chance at survival if Ubuntu were allowed to spread. Which I guess is where the Security Council is coming from in their invasion.

Destroyers were controversial because in pre-WiH Sol, they weren't needed. After or during WiH, the situation is a bit different, just as the situation would be different if the UEF had to administrate a territory the size of the GTVA. You are making the same mistake several other people have made, namely assuming that the UEF would make exactly the same choices it could make in Sol when it would have to deal with the same situation the GTVA deals with.

Given the fact they they built destroyers at all, one could make that case that the UEF were rather overprepared and overequipped for their role. They certainly didn't need the firepower of 3 fleets to hold the line against Gefs.

[-Norbert-]

While the node remained closed for 50 years, some people in power still believed it was possible the Shivans might rebuild them again. Due to the long time this didn't happen, the ones believing in Sols savety far outnumbered the "pessimists", but they obviously were able to get a few contingencies build even against the majority and public opinion.