Author Topic: UK Voting Referendum  (Read 6475 times)

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Offline Flipside

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UK Voting Referendum
Well, done my bit and voted, though it's been very quiet at the local polling station which doesn't bode well for the 'Yes' voters.

The very people most inclined to vote 'Yes' to this would be younger people, whose generation this is going to have the most impact on, the problem is they already feel betrayed and alienated by the Lib-Dems, and so aren't inclined to support them.

 

Offline headdie

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
we also had local elections today on top of the referendum so 3 ballots to post not just the 1 :rolleyes:, tbh i have always preferred a nice and simple one person one vote, simple and fair.  if someone didnt get in or the person in the seat didn't change when it should have done then what were the politicians doing when they should have been engaging their supporters?
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Offline Flipside

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
I'm not really too fussed to be honest, but I suppose I slightly prefer the AV system for the fact that it does mean that MP's have to do enough to earn at least 50% of the local vote, which could lead to some 'comfy' seats being not so certain any more. Problem is, if it helps make a few more Politiicians aware of the fact that they are in Office, not 'Power' as they keep calling it, then it's good, but if it helps the current incarnation of the Lib-Dems gain more influence, then it's not good.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
From what I've heard back home a lot of people are turned off the idea because they are sick of voting for coalition governments where the party they voted for then turn around and betray every principle they supposedly stood for. AV would result in an increase in that.

Personally I reckon that the Lib Dems are basically spent as a political force. No one will vote for them next election which means they'll cling onto the Tories as long as they can and then vanish as a major party next election.

EDIT : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13297573

Quote
Elections expert Professor John Curtice said this would represent the worst Lib Dem council performance since the party was formed in the late 1980s.

Quote
Polls suggest AV - under which voters rank candidates in order of preference - will be rejected by a sizeable margin.

So it looks like they whored themselves out for nothing and caught terminal VD in the process. :p
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 03:18:46 am by karajorma »
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Offline Ravenholme

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
From what I've heard back home a lot of people are turned off the idea because they are sick of voting for coalition governments where the party they voted for then turn around and betray every principle they supposedly stood for. AV would result in an increase in that.

Personally I reckon that the Lib Dems are basically spent as a political force. No one will vote for them next election which means they'll cling onto the Tories as long as they can and then vanish as a major party next election.

EDIT : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13297573

Quote
Elections expert Professor John Curtice said this would represent the worst Lib Dem council performance since the party was formed in the late 1980s.

Quote
Polls suggest AV - under which voters rank candidates in order of preference - will be rejected by a sizeable margin.

So it looks like they whored themselves out for nothing and caught terminal VD in the process. :p

Scottish Parliament elections are supporting this, Lib Dems have only just managed to cling to two seats so far, and that's Orkney/Shetland.

SNP is winning by a landslide, but the highlands and west coast still have to declare.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13297573

And they got creamed. I wonder what Nick Clegg is going to do now. Apart from wishing he'd done a deal with Labour instead.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
Yup, no surprise there, I don't think it was so much the policy that was the problem as the perception of the people asking you to vote for it. Conservative were smart to get that Student Grant vote out of them before the referendum, it's pretty much ruined their credibility. Also, with an SNP majority in Scotland, you can expect a vote on Independance soon, so I have a feeling it's no just Clegg who is going to end up with severe historical egg on their faces.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
does this have something to do with this?
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Offline Ravenholme

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
Yup, no surprise there, I don't think it was so much the policy that was the problem as the perception of the people asking you to vote for it. Conservative were smart to get that Student Grant vote out of them before the referendum, it's pretty much ruined their credibility. Also, with an SNP majority in Scotland, you can expect a vote on Independance soon, so I have a feeling it's no just Clegg who is going to end up with severe historical egg on their faces.

Well, the Independence Referendum's success depends very much on how the SNP do, and how much each party manages to play upon public opinion in the run up to it.
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Offline headdie

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
Yup, no surprise there, I don't think it was so much the policy that was the problem as the perception of the people asking you to vote for it. Conservative were smart to get that Student Grant vote out of them before the referendum, it's pretty much ruined their credibility. Also, with an SNP majority in Scotland, you can expect a vote on Independance soon, so I have a feeling it's no just Clegg who is going to end up with severe historical egg on their faces.

Well, the Independence Referendum's success depends very much on how the SNP do, and how much each party manages to play upon public opinion in the run up to it.

They also need Westminster to vote through the framework that allows for independence before the referendum can be held
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Offline Ravenholme

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
Yup, no surprise there, I don't think it was so much the policy that was the problem as the perception of the people asking you to vote for it. Conservative were smart to get that Student Grant vote out of them before the referendum, it's pretty much ruined their credibility. Also, with an SNP majority in Scotland, you can expect a vote on Independance soon, so I have a feeling it's no just Clegg who is going to end up with severe historical egg on their faces.

Well, the Independence Referendum's success depends very much on how the SNP do, and how much each party manages to play upon public opinion in the run up to it.

They also need Westminster to vote through the framework that allows for independence before the referendum can be held

Which is completely unfair, because the chances of any of the ENGLISH parties allowing such a framework through Westminister are near to nil.

Basically, if Northern Sudan had been able to vote on the framework for the secession of Southern Sudan, it would never have gained independence.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 11:06:29 am by Ravenholme »
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Re: UK Voting Referendum
Scottish independence?
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
Scottish independence?

Scottish National Party, a centre-left political party based in Scotland, won the Scottish Parliamentary Elections to a resounding 9 seat majority in a parliamentary system which had been created to make gaining a majority almost impossible. One of their platform goals is a referendum on Scottish Independence, and they're now in a position where it is achievable.
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Offline headdie

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
Quick history lesson.  The formal title of the UK is the United Kingdom Of Great Brittan, which is comprised of the countries England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland governed by the English parliament in Westminster, London.  After the Romans pulled out the British islands formed many small kingdoms which slowly merged into the countries as listed then the English kings waged several wars to bring the other countries under English rule.  ever since the populations of these regions have campaigned with differing tactics, both political and militarily for independence.  The most recent of the violent uprisings are the "Troubles" in Ireland which as it stands are currently non violent with the formation of the Republic of Ireland and devolved power to Northern Ireland in the form of the Norther Irish Assembly.  Wales and Scotland have been able to negotiate their own assemblies but these are still answerable to Westminster in matters of the treasury and certain aspects of law making.  Now some sections of all three countries want full independence, Ireland and Scotland being the most vocal, though Ireland is currently focusing more on establishing a stable political system at the moment.  Wales is working more behind the scenes and I dont think there is a huge movement to see it happen.  What is interesting about the Scottish elections is that the SNP (Scottish National Party) who's main focus is supposed to be on independence won the majority while making little mention of independence during the campaign but are calling the win a mandate for independence which is proving a little controversial both sides of the border.
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Offline Ravenholme

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
Quick history lesson.  The formal title of the UK is the United Kingdom Of Great Brittan, which is comprised of the countries England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland governed by the English parliament in Westminster, London.  After the Romans pulled out the British islands formed many small kingdoms which slowly merged into the countries as listed then the English kings waged several wars to bring the other countries under English rule.  ever since the populations of these regions have campaigned with differing tactics, both political and militarily for independence.  The most recent of the violent uprisings are the "Troubles" in Ireland which as it stands are currently non violent with the formation of the Republic of Ireland and devolved power to Northern Ireland in the form of the Norther Irish Assembly.  Wales and Scotland have been able to negotiate their own assemblies but these are still answerable to Westminster in matters of the treasury and certain aspects of law making.  Now some sections of all three countries want full independence, Ireland and Scotland being the most vocal, though Ireland is currently focusing more on establishing a stable political system at the moment.  Wales is working more behind the scenes and I dont think there is a huge movement to see it happen.  What is interesting about the Scottish elections is that the SNP (Scottish National Party) who's main focus is supposed to be on independence won the majority while making little mention of independence during the campaign but are calling the win a mandate for independence which is proving a little controversial both sides of the border.

Speaking as a native scot, most people aren't batting an eye at the SNP's mention that they intend for a referendum on independence. It has always been a MAJOR part of their manifesto, it was mentioned gods know how many times in the run up to the election, and it's not a huge issue. Most people I talk to welcome the idea (And this is a broad spectrum, as I work in a petrol station and chat to most of my customers), because it won't be an immediate thing, and with an SNP majority and a few years until the proposed referendum, we will manage to see how the nation fairs at their helm, and WE will decide when the vote comes. If we think that they prove that Scotland has a brighter future without England, we will decide that at the poll.

And, the Union of Crowns is ONLY 300 years old. Scotland/Pictland/Caledonia was an independent nation a hell of a lot longer than that, even resisting the roman empire (or rather, the Roman Empire gave up trying to tame the worthless barbarians after they lost a Legion or two, as even their victory at Mons Graupius couldn't bring them to heel). So, your history lesson is riddled with innacuracy.

However, your comment on how the SNP's election is being percieved down in England (including an innacurate statement about how we're recieving it) seems to be characteristic of what my English friends are being told (Those who live in England, I mean), so clearly the disinformation/rumour mill is hard at work. (One particularly amusing one pointed out that Alex Salmond is being made out as a rabid secessionist who would use military means if possible, which, if true, could not be farther from the truth).

Another comment about their election campaign, Independence was mentioned, but so was the things that they had achieved and the things they were still attempting to. Labour sunk their campaign by making it very negative, and by having a history of voting contrary-wise to the SNP, out of spite (As voiced by one of Labour's own MPs, who came forward on the election morning in disgust, citing an incident he experienced). Lib Dems, well, no brainer there. Tories, they held the majority of their seats, small as that is.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 11:58:34 am by Ravenholme »
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Re: UK Voting Referendum
So basically the Scots are tired of living in the same country as the English.  Aside from being closer to secession, what's new about that?

As to Ireland, I though the Irish had been fully independent for a while with the exception of Northern Ireland, which voted to stay part of the U.K.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline headdie

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
If i gave the impression that the romans conquered Scotland or that the process of unifying the Island was a quick process I am sorry, that was not my intention, indeed it took centuries just to unify the kingdoms in England let along starting looking outwards

@SpardaSon21
Yes the Republic of Ireland is independent entity and recognized as such by both the UK and the UN, Although N. Ireland was retained by the UK there was and is still a significant number of people in the area still wanting independence from the UK which meant that as late as the mid 90s there were still violent incidents from the republican elements.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 12:00:09 pm by headdie »
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Offline Ravenholme

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
So basically the Scots are tired of living in the same country as the English.  Aside from being closer to secession, what's new about that?

As to Ireland, I though the Irish had been fully independent for a while with the exception of Northern Ireland, which voted to stay part of the U.K.

*Tired of being two countries unified under one crown, which has twisted over the decades as the Westminister Parliament of Great Britain essentially became the Westminister Parliament of England (and resource territories).

A lot of interesting and unofficial seperatist sentiment sprung up in the lead up to the election. Some group (as yet unidentified, but believed to be radical seppies) were planting signs alongside other party ones saying "End London Rule" and "London Lies." Both of which are broadly accurate. (For evidence for the last statement, look into the suppressed McCrone report.)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 12:12:57 pm by Ravenholme »
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Re: UK Voting Referendum
Well, I hope you guys over in Great Britain resolve this in a manner that doesn't involve angry Scotsmen and Welshmen invading England to burn and pillage.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: UK Voting Referendum
Well, I hope you guys over in Great Britain resolve this in a manner that doesn't involve angry Scotsmen and Welshmen invading England to burn and pillage.

Whichever way it goes, we're in for some interesting times this Parliamentary session. I think the chances of the referendum passing are greatly increased by the current Tory government and what is sensationally being referred to as 'a return to Thatcherism' (Thatcherism was terrible for Scotland. The only good Thatcher did was her stance on the Falklands conflict, although arguably she helped create that problem)
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