[TomShak]

I think I'll leave that to someone who's better at designing stuff

[TomShak]

So here's a good question for someone with some modelling experience ... When texture and normal mapping these, what kind of texture size should I be using?

[chief1983]

I personally think a two-seat design fits the ship itself very well.  Also, the Lambda holds 6 crew in the cockpit!  I know this is a smaller ship, but the manufacturer might have a habit of breaking up flight responsibilities as opposed to making a ship designed to have everything done by one person.  There are 2-seater Y-wing variants, the Snowspeeder is a 2-seater, so I don't see why the Gunboat couldn't be.  If there's something more official than a previous game that suggests otherwise, fine, but then maybe there could just be variants or something.  Honestly, it kind of reminds me of BSG's Raptor.

[Thaeris]

Tom, you seem pretty familiar with the Gunboat, and I'm guessing you've run through TIE Fighter or X-Wing enough as a younger chap. If I was to make one last prompt as a Gunboat fan, I'd note that what the 'Boat does in X-Wing or TIE Fighter is most reflective of what the fighter should be capable of. It's slower than an X-Wing, faster than the Y-Wing, and suited to a role which falls right in between the capabilities of the two ships, all the while coming into the fight with a tough hull and mighty shields. The Gunboat has always been presented as single seat, and I'd like to see it stay that way if possible. Any other suggestion... I've probably already covered.

That said, unless you'd like any further concept art for this one, I think I'll rest my case for now. Keep up the good work, Sir.

[bobbtmann]

I think I'll leave that to someone who's better at designing stuff

You can do it! Try some experimenting. You certainly can't make it worse than the original.

So here's a good question for someone with some modelling experience ... When texture and normal mapping these, what kind of texture size should I be using?

I'd go with 1024 x 1024. But then again, I've been told in the past I don't detail enough. Brandx0's models all look like the're using 4096x4096 in the renders.

[swashmebuckle]

Our current textures for Brand's fighters are at 2048^2 each, but you should work huge and reduce to that if possible so that we can have ridiculously detailed maps in the future when more computers can handle them

As to the design discussion, I think the further you steer it away from fighter territory, the better it will fit with the Imperial fleet.  I realize that for the old X-wing games it was important to have craft that had comparable functionality to the rebels', but to me it's just not in character for the Empire to use ships designed for hit-and-run action, even in limited numbers. 

Instead, I think they would make for a natural pairing with the DX-9 Stormtrooper Transport (which we just happen to have an awesome model of, courtesy of Newman).  I could easily envision a few of these jumping in along with the transport, launching combined volleys of torpedoes to take down the target's shields, engines, turrets, whatever, and staying on station while the transport boards to make sure the captured vessel plays nice.  They should only be found in a dogfight in the most desperate circumstances--unlike the Alliance, the Empire can afford to specialize, and it has no shortage of dedicated space superiority fighters.  IMO, the idea of the Gunboat "filling a niche" that just happens to involve doing everything that a generalist, rebel-type starfighter does is the problem.  When the Empire wants to mess somebody up, it doesn't send out puny squadrons of starfighters--it throws a star destroyer at you.  The gunboat has to have a dedicated role that it fills better than any other ship, or the Empire wouldn't use them.

[CountBuggula]

I guess here's the issue.  I never liked the Assault Gunboat, and I see this as a chance to make something that more people will actually like.  The designers have already stated that their goal isn't in any way to replicate the lucasarts X-Wing games in any way, and instead to recreate the feel of the movies.

Since this ship has barely even surfaced outside of the lucasarts games in the EU, I'd say we have a huge amount of freedom in designing it to better fit with the movie ships than most current designs.  Screw the X-Wing game mechanics.  Make it our own.

Instead, I think they would make for a natural pairing with the DX-9 Stormtrooper Transport (which we just happen to have an awesome model of, courtesy of Newman).  I could easily envision a few of these jumping in along with the transport, launching combined volleys of torpedoes to take down the target's shields, engines, turrets, whatever, and staying on station while the transport boards to make sure the captured vessel plays nice.  They should only be found in a dogfight in the most desperate circumstances--unlike the Alliance, the Empire can afford to specialize, and it has no shortage of dedicated space superiority fighters.  IMO, the idea of the Gunboat "filling a niche" that just happens to involve doing everything that a generalist, rebel-type starfighter does is the problem.  When the Empire wants to mess somebody up, it doesn't send out puny squadrons of starfighters--it throws a star destroyer at you.  The gunboat has to have a dedicated role that it fills better than any other ship, or the Empire wouldn't use them.

I very much like this idea, and agree that the gunboat/starwing shouldn't be a generalist multipurpose fighter.  This is an assault craft.

Honestly I always thought this ship didn't belong with Imperial forces anyway.

This is exactly why I never liked this ship.  I never thought this looked like an imperial ship:



While to me, these do:

[zookeeper]

I personally think a two-seat design fits the ship itself very well.

Yeah, because if you start putting your pilots in single-seat ships with hyperdrive capability, you've probably just made defections a whole lot more common.

So, you put two people in there, the pilot in the front and a political officer on the back seat. 

[SkycladGuardian]

I've closely followed the discussion and decided to add my two cents.
At first I was in favour of the one seater option, but regarding some very convincing arguments I've changed my mind and now would also prefer a two seater variant.
Especially in light of the fact that originally the AG was designed out of the necessity of having a shielded and hyperdrive capable imperial craft in the early stages of XW and TF (so it was basically a balancing decision), I think that some alterations in the design can make the AG much more appealing -

So my suggestions are:
- keep the general shape, but
- make it bigger in all dimensions (longer, broader, higher), enlarge the missile pods
- make it a two seater 
- perhaps aim for a more compact appearence (I'm not sure about this myself, but I have a crossover of a BSG Raptor, the Lambda Shuttle and the traditional AG Design in mind, don't know to put that into words )

Just my two cents :-)

[TomShak]

So ...  people can envision their gunboats as heavy assault craft if they like, but that's not what the Gunboat is to me so it's not the Gunboat I'm making

I find it highly unlikely that Empire had no use at all for hyperdrive capable starfighters. Sure the general strategy was TIEs carried by capital ships, but not even a single long range starfighter? I can't imagine that every time the Empire wants to project force the only answer is "We'll jump in the ISD". Apart from anything else a single ISD can't be in more than one place at one time. The same with Ion cannons, the Rebels had Ion cannons on two of the 4 main starship designs. Were Ion cannons so useless to the Empire that they didn't have any starfighter sized ships at all with that capability?

To me the Gunboat has an important niche in the Empire. It was the only long range Imperial star fighter, it was also the only Ion cannon equipped starfighter. It did go against the standard Imperial doctrine of TIEs carried by capital ships, but that's what made it so useful. It filled the holes in the standard doctrine, it was what made the standard doctrine workable because it added flexibility.

I also remember that Gunboats were used quite frequently in the design of XW & TF missions. They came up a lot more frequently than they "should" have given their limited numbers. Having had a go once at making some missions I can see why. They are very useful for filling holes in missions. I'm sure the reason that TG created the AG was because without it the Imperial Navy is just too inflexible to write certain scenarios.

So, my AG is a single seater multi-role starfighter, sitting in performance between the XW and the YW

[headdie]

The empire had starfighter bases in most systems they controlled not to mention a ridiculous number of ASD, VSD ISD, ISD II and other star-fighter carrying ships.  The Imperial Doctrine of not using intersystem fighters was only viable because of the huge number of carrier ships and bases they had scattered through the known galaxy

[Thaeris]

I'll step back in to make a counter-point here, Headdie: A tactical fighter which can move independently of a large strike vessel is still immensely useful for obvious reasons, and any competent military force would field such a type. As you noted, there aren't massive numbers of Gunboats out there, and they exist as a specialized type - a fighter which can perform roles no other Imperial type can. Due to the large number of Imperial installations out there, as well as the comparatively small number of Gunboats, you'll not commonly encounter the type. But, if you need a fighter to act as a long-range escort, a tactical interdictor, or even an atmospheric close support fighter, etc., you genuinely need the AG.

The only other "common" Imperial jump fighters only become common after the EU really starts to set in, and these are most notably space superiority types. The AG has a definite, useful, albeit uncommon purpose. If you need to slam a target with big shuttles, the Lambda and the Landing Craft are there, and the DX-9 has ion cannons and torpedoes. The Gunboat is the bread and butter in between your heavy boarding and assault ships, and the only one that can escort them (barring your advanced TIEs which only come about much later) after they jump.

[newman]

On a side note this thread is hillarious

[Thaeris]

Newman, you're a douche.

 

[SypheDMar]

Be creative and make it your own. I'd like to be able to come across a picture of your ship on Google and say: that's a TomShak.

[TomShak]

As a little update I've been UV unwrapping and normal mapping, here's a normal mapped wing. Inspired by FractalSponge

[headdie]

Looking good

[TomShak]

What do people think the colour of the AG should be? Whitish like the Lambda shuttle, bluish like FractalSponge's or a simple imperial grey?

[Dragon]

I think that it could either be blue-ish or Imperial gray with red markings, like in XWA.

[Commander Zane]

Grey with the blue hue and black.