[NGTM-1R]

FYI, many of my statistics come from the FB-Freaking-I, so stfu about untrustworthy sources.

Their own site on the subject isn't terribly transparent. It's mostly listing indictments and convictions; success stories. The numbers given are rather low for a problem as large as claimed.

Secondly, follow some of the links I posted to get more information.  That's where I got more of what I posted.

I did. I see very little on the subject I haven't talked about already. The problem is, at the least, no longer being actively tracked, which is kind of worrisome.

Courage To Be You brings FBI agents out to speak on this matter when they do awareness events.  I'm pretty freaking sure that means they're reliable.

I don't doubt the agents speak truly of their personal experiences, but the knowledgebase the FBI will admit is small even by those standards. The numbers given are, again, low; 600 convictions, approximately twice that number children saved, etc., over the course of several years. This does not seem like pervasive knowledge of something as big as they claim it is, with tens of thousands of people being imported for the purpose each year, otherwise a lot more people would be going to jail. Either the problem is smaller, the effort is not effective, or the effort is not being applied.

The only way I can judge which is with outside sources which don't appear to exist. That's rather frustrating.

[AtomicClucker]

Dateline did a good documentary on this stuff happening in the Ukraine, I saw it on Youtube. The authorities were certainly aware of the problem and had been making arrests but apparently they had a hard time building a conclusive case against people they were pretty sure were guilty. Which is strange considering some NBC reporters managed to schedule a meeting with a trafficker.

There's child prostitution too, and that's entirely legal in places like Thailand. Parents will sell their kids off to support themselves.

This sounds [the OPs article] more like overblown fluff, then lets say the truly shocking documentary recently touring parts of the nation about the child soldiers being used in African countries, known as Invisible Children.

I think this is a much more serious and preventable problem than child soldiers or whatever. Being a child sex slave will really **** you up for life, and it happens all around the world. And many if not most child soldiers are actually volunteers. Not to start a my-humanitarian-crisis-is-worse-than-yours debate.

The point is we have tangible evidence that shows actually how deranged the problem in Uganda, but it's one example of real child trafficking in action. Instead, here we're faced with a claim backpedaled with a bunch of sites and statistics from the FBI, but my question remains if the material is nothing more than "shock" tactics that so-called advocates use to scare people into giving them money and power.

Combined with NGTM-1R points and important emphasis, a lot of the statistics need to be properly verfied.

To reach my own point, yes, I'm delibrately deflating Goatmasters' hsyteria because its the exact opposite of how to deal with the problem, especially when a number of these organizations have been involved with doctoring evidence to pass as "statistics," this was an issue that was recently brought up at a human trafficking symposium hosted by my university's peace and justic studies.

[Mustang19]

AtomicClucker can speak for himself. I just want to say thanks to G0at. For his good deed for a good cause. And for creating what rapidly blossomed into a five page thread on GD.

[mjn.mixael]

Yeah.. I pretty much decided that I don't need to prove anything to these yahoos. If they want to argue statistics and research while real people are hurting... then let them be judged accordingly by someone more righteous than I.

[jr2]

To reach my own point, yes, I'm delibrately deflating Goatmasters' hsyteria

To read your words literally, you are saying what G0at has claimed is inaccurate at best and deliberate falsehood that he stupidly believed at worst.  oo... k, moving on...

because its the exact opposite of how to deal with the problem,

So, great one, lead the way... oh wait, how did you say to fix this problem again?

especially when a number of these organizations have been involved with doctoring evidence to pass as "statistics," this was an issue that was recently brought up at a human trafficking symposium hosted by my university's peace and justic studies.

Which, obviously, because it was brought up at a symposium hosted by your university, means it's true.  While statistics by relatively well-trusted organizations are not.    Yes, I know you didn't say that that constituted proof of your claims.  You also didn't give any proof.  wow   EDIT: In other words, in the said symposium, what facts were discussed and what were the sources backing said facts ... not asking for a transcript, but we don't even see an overview here... nothing on radar, flying blind.

[G0atmaster]

Yes, please, o wise and wonderful world-fixer.  Tell us how you would go about getting help, as opposed to getting folks to see that the problem is big, and bad, and worth doing something about?

[karajorma]

Get people to see the problem is big, and bad, and worth doing something about without lying about it.


This is like claiming that Osama Bin Laden ****ed embryonic goats in order to get people to dislike him. The problem is worth dealing with on its own but when you lie about it people start to wonder if YOU are trustworthy. And when you're talking about someone who is going to be dealing with abused children, I sure as **** want to know I'm not dealing with someone who is a liar.

[Luis Dias]

Well yeah but that's just human nature. It's pathetic but it is what it is. All these organizations have to engage in this type of ****ty marketing or else they dont' get any attention to them. The most glaring example is when Greenpeace goes about saying that Apple is the worst company in the world in X, Y and Zed and then they fudge every kind of statistics or blatantly lie about it just to get their point. And then they achieve their goal, everyone hears about this in the news because it becomes newsworthy.... if it was about how HP was the worst pc company in terms of eco, no one would care, and no one would do anything about it.

Unfortunately it works. Apple, for instance, has since then always focused on their ecological merits too, and market them (since their market does care about these things). And I'm talking about a pc corporation, but you can just pretty much generalize this to every kind of ecological or human problem, and this is the only tactic that seems to get enough money and attention.

Yeah, it's abhorrent and it crosses my nerves as well, but that's the problem with dealing with mammals...

[Mustang19]

This is like claiming that Osama Bin Laden ****ed embryonic goats in order to get people to dislike him.

I've seen a lot of wierd **** on the internet but this just about takes the cake. This along with the pic of the Garfield guy with a robot torso and dripping vagina squeezing a dog to death while it bursts apart spewing feces.

I don't see how such a feat would move people to dislike a dude; rather, if it were physically possible I would expect admiration to follow and the creation of a new sub-subgenre of porn.

[Kosh]

This is like claiming that Osama Bin Laden ****ed embryonic goats in order to get people to dislike him.

Who knew he was for abortion.

[Luis Dias]

This is like claiming that Osama Bin Laden ****ed embryonic goats in order to get people to dislike him.

I've seen a lot of wierd **** on the internet but this just about takes the cake. This along with the pic of the Garfield guy with a robot torso and dripping vagina squeezing a dog to death while it bursts apart spewing feces.

I don't see how such a feat would move people to dislike a dude; rather, if it were physically possible I would expect admiration to follow and the creation of a new sub-subgenre of porn.

You're not thinking with muslim eyes, which was his point. I think he's exagerating here, but not saying fully silly things.

[Wobble73]

As a person who works within a Children's department in the UK, I can categorically state the child trafficking is very real. However, I don't think it's a big a problem here as GOatmaster suggests it is in the US(?). And I do know of a few cases in my area that the children are used in sex traffic, however in a majority of cases they are usually brought in (many Vietnamese) to tend to Cannabis farms.

[Black Wolf]

This actually got me a tad worried as well - fortunately the Aussie government seem more or less on top of it, and even the worst estimates say there're no more than a thousand women at any one time in Australia (and more realistic estimates suggest between one and four hundred). Still a serious issue, but not as bad as these stats seem to imply might be the case elsewhere.

[General Battuta]

even the worst estimates say there're no more than a thousand women at any one time in Australia (and more realistic estimates suggest between one and four hundred)

No wonder you're so horny.

[Mustang19]

I just realized a thread about child molestation is not a place for creepy male-male sexual innuendo.

[Luis Dias]

*paaaaaffffffff*****

[Qent]

Well yeah but that's just human nature. It's pathetic but it is what it is. All these organizations have to engage in this type of ****ty marketing or else they dont' get any attention to them.

So true... but it depends on the target audience. In this community, C2BU's effort would be much better spent trying to paint child abusers as religious fundamentalists. Even then, they'd probably get busted by GB or someone.

[Luis Dias]

... and rightly so... religious "fundamentalism" had little to do with the sexual scandal within the catholic church. It had all to do with the internal culture among sexually repressed priests. Zizek talked about this, and I agree with him that such phenomena has to do with a barbaric aspect of human tribalism, which is whenever you enter a kind of a group, you have to indulge in practices that are anthitethical to the deontological aspects of the group itself, secretly and humiliatingly. This humiliation is required, so you are accepted as "one of them". Unfortunately, in priesthood, it seems that the selected practice is child abuse. This is a complex phenomena, but we are derailing the thread

[MP-Ryan]

Zizek talked about this, and I agree with him that such phenomena has to do with a barbaric aspect of human tribalism, which is whenever you enter a kind of a group, you have to indulge in practices that are anthitethical to the deontological aspects of the group itself, secretly and humiliatingly. This humiliation is required, so you are accepted as "one of them".

This sounds suspiciously like sociophilosophical bull****.  Having never actually heard of Zizek before and Google'd him, I'd say it's confirmed as sociophilosophical bull****.  It's this kind of nonsense that gives sociology and psychology a bad reputation as soft sciences.  Not a testable hypothesis in the entirety of that written diarrhea.

/derail.

Oops, don't look now, my contempt for philosophy is showing

[Luis Dias]

Zizek talked about this, and I agree with him that such phenomena has to do with a barbaric aspect of human tribalism, which is whenever you enter a kind of a group, you have to indulge in practices that are anthitethical to the deontological aspects of the group itself, secretly and humiliatingly. This humiliation is required, so you are accepted as "one of them".

This sounds suspiciously like sociophilosophical bull****.  Having never actually heard of Zizek before and Google'd him, I'd say it's confirmed as sociophilosophical bull****.  It's this kind of nonsense that gives sociology and psychology a bad reputation as soft sciences.  Not a testable hypothesis in the entirety of that written diarrhea.

Yeah, that's equally possible. There are some things out there that are quite "soft", and I'm happy to agree with that assessment, and join your skepticism. But it's not that I've heard a better and even, gasp, sympathetic to the priests, explanation of this utter puzzling and barbaric phenomena.