Author Topic: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!  (Read 6520 times)

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Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
I never thought I'd have to say  this to moderators, but don't argue here.
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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
Mongoose, the reason the original Halo comes off as being so run-of-the-mill now is because it essentially established the formulae that modern shooters operate on today.  It changed quite a bit about the FPS genre in its time, and calling it "fairly unremarkable" shows a blatant disregard for history.  Remember that Halo 1 came out in a time when first-person shooters were still considered impossible to implement well on a console and when the genre was moving towards multiplayer-only on PC.  If nothing else, Halo 1 is a big part of the reason why FPS's to this day ship on consoles and with singleplayer campaigns.

You can certainly criticize the sequels all you like for failing to innovate or not refining the formula, and I'll agree that the new trilogy is naught but milking the franchise, but the original deserved all of the fanfare it received and most certainly shouldn't be written off as "fairly unremarkable."

[edit] Also, I feel it necessary to point out that you've been defending the Duke Nukem Forever demo.  You're not in the best position to be attacking a shooter for being a formulaic cash grab, while defending another formulaic cash grab of a shooter, fifteen years in the making. [/edit]
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 08:12:50 am by BlueFlames »

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
Prior to Halo

Regenerating health was rare and 2-4 weapon limit, was about but still uncommon.  Walking, driving and flying being equally enjoyable in one game was rare.  Console to PC port that was worth playing on either system anyone?

I would have to disagree with BlueFlames on the dwindling single player in FPS focus as although there were some dire games at the time there were also some good ones as well.  But on the rest of BlueFlame's post I have to whole heartedly agree.
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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
I would have to disagree with BlueFlames on the dwindling single player in FPS focus as although there were some dire games at the time there were also some good ones as well.

The big franchises were definately moving in the direction of multiplayer-only.  Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, and the commercial release of Counterstrike really laid the groundwork.  They proved to publishers that they needn't have their developers spend the time or money on tremendous AI or a lengthy singleplayer campaign, as long as they could make content for a pretty graphics engine and build solid netcode.  There were certainly a few singleplayer FPS's available, like Red Faction, but the number of releases was diminishing, up to the point of Halo's release, and had it not been for Halo, I think it's safe to say that the trend would have continued.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
Regardless of any statements I've made in the past, you can't sit there and tell me that the original Halo wasn't a fairly-unremarkable game that somehow managed to create millions of rabid fanboys that treated it as the Grand High Franchise

Jesus Christ are you serious. Yes I can, I can say that, I can absolutely assert it was a remarkable game. Furthermore, I would never say the same thing about 'fairly unremarkable' console trash like Zelda or Final Fantasy, because even though I don't see the slightest bit of value in those games, I understand there is value for many people, and I respect that my perspective isn't everything. Those games are meaningful and important even if I don't enjoy them.

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Hell, it spawned an entire culture of a specific type of gamer, which sees its continuation today in the teeming masses of CoD fans.  I played the original Halo, and I found the singleplayer to be repetitive and often tiresome, while the multiplayer was a plodding annoying affair; from everything I've heard and seen, the various sequels didn't exactly display any massive improvements.  The news of an entire new trilogy in the series feels for all the world like the lame cash-grab it really is.

I respect that my perspective isn't everything, and wow, dude, apparently you don't. Mongoose judges, and thus, I quote, that's how 'it really is'.

If Mongoose doesn't like it, it's a lame cash grab and its fans are frat bros. Get on the Mongoose wagon or get out. There's no room here for people to wish well for franchises they themselves don't enjoy.

What is with this forum? I spend pages defending console gamers from PC gamers, then turn around and find the console gamers being just as toolhardy to each other. Pages defending empiricism from the uninformed, then turn around to find atheists being ****heads.

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Also, don't try to pin any sort of negative behavior in here on me alone.  I've seen utterly absurd amounts of hyper-critical nit-picking from people in here aimed at titles barely deserving of any of it.  I hardly think that a few snide one-liners are a bigger problem than elitist groupthink.

Brother, I just said that you were better than that. Go on, then; prove I'm right. Believe it or not, gaming isn't a zero-sum affair, and the fact that people are having fun with something you don't enjoy isn't cause to tear it down or to make those people out to be idiots.

I've argued for tolerance in your defense before. Now you're on the other side of that argument, and that saddens me.

jesus **** I can't believe I have to do this in a thread about Halo 4, a game I do not even give a **** about.

ed: I mean come on man, it boils down to this: is it hurting you? No. Why do you need to come in here and call the people who enjoy it dumb frat bros? What gives you the privilege to describe every single Halo player? Why is your opinion automatically worth more than those of every one of those players?

If you don't like it, that's fine, why do you have to piss on those who do? Even by playground sandbox rules that's pretty small.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
It's not like I'm saying you're the worst person since Hitler, but come on man, these petty franchise wars are the kind of things I expect to see on Kotaku comments or GameFAQs.

 

Offline Ghostavo

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
The thing I hate about these Halo discussions is that people use the same arguments that have been refuted over and over again. Halo didn't innovate weapons limits or regenerating health (Let's say... Battlezone 2 in 1999 had these and I'd wager it wasn't the first).

It wasn't even the first good implementation of an FPS on a console (GoldenEye seems to have had pretty good press about it).

What Halo did achieve was popularizing FPS on consoles and in doing so, making FPS more mainstream. It was an above average FPS, but not the crown jewel of gaming people make it up to be.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
God I don't even ****ing care, I give no ****s about Halo, I just want people to stop being tools.

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Offline IronBeer

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
(Let's say... Battlezone 2 in 1999 had these and I'd wager it wasn't the first).
Hardly. Only the morphable Scion vehicles and some heavy ISDF vehicles had health regeneration, otherwise you only regenerated ammo, and in both cases it was so slow so as to be negligible. I mean, the ISDF scout could remanufacture a minigun round about once a second, maybe a bit slower. Ships were still pretty much dependent on outside support.

Pariah had limited health regeneration- your health bar was broken into a few segments, and you could regenerate up to the top of your highest remaining segment. But, I think Pariah came after Halo (wiki check: most certainly).

****, Freespace has a shielding system not entirely different than Halo's- shields go first, then you take hull (health) damage. Just no medkits (unless we're playing WiH or something along those lines).

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What Halo did achieve was popularizing FPS on consoles and in doing so, making FPS more mainstream. It was an above average FPS, but not the crown jewel of gaming people make it up to be.
It may not be the best game of all time, but in most gamers' minds, it was really good. Moreover, it came out at a good time: the Xbox was suffering from weakish launch titles just prior to Halo's release. People loved it for the simple reason that it was fun. I fondly recall plenty of occasions where me and my buddies would drag our Xbox crap over to each other's houses, and have epic 4-on-4 and larger CTF wars.


To the matter at hand:
Now that I've had a chance to sleep on it, I've come back with a more defined opinion. I'm excited to see what 343 is going to do with the multiplayer, and I'm also interested in the single player. The core Halo games, to me, have always had a pretty good story, so the inclusion of Master Chief, while understandable (seeing as we're picking up after 3), perhaps struck me initially as a little uninspired. Though if that trailer has any bearing on what we can expect from gameplay (which it very well might not), I for one would be very interested in the prospect of real zero-g combat.
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Offline headdie

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
The thing I hate about these Halo discussions is that people use the same arguments that have been refuted over and over again. Halo didn't innovate weapons limits or regenerating health (Let's say... Battlezone 2 in 1999 had these and I'd wager it wasn't the first).
Regenerating health was rare and 2-4 weapon limit, was about but still uncommon.

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It wasn't even the first good implementation of an FPS on a console (GoldenEye seems to have had pretty good press about it).
I would have to agree there but it was the exception and not the rule, Halo strongly influenced it becoming the norm

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What Halo did achieve was popularizing FPS on consoles and in doing so, making FPS more mainstream. It was an above average FPS, but not the crown jewel of gaming people make it up to be.

I am sorry but at the time it was the crown jewel, find the noteworthy console fps games prior to that and count them, it is a small number especially compared to now.

What Halo did was not new from an innovation standpoint, what it did was to round up all the little bits out there already and apply a good coat of polish making the genre accessible to the masses, then Microsoft did it's usual ohhh that worked lets do it again thus making the Halo template the baseline for arcade fps games.  Again i am not saying that is always a good thing but it was an influential moment in gaming history and did for consoles what ID's Wolfenstine and Doom games did for the PC a decade earlier
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
I never played Halo, and wasn't aware of its historical "importance" at all. Nice to learn it.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
It wasn't even the first good implementation of an FPS on a console (GoldenEye seems to have had pretty good press about it).

Goldeneye was a whole generation of consoles before, and though my N64 still worked when I got an Xbox (and still works now), whatever mark it had made was long since erased. Goldeneye's genius lay in different areas, as well, in variety. As a storytelling medium it was pretty much ****.

Halo was more than an unremarkable game to play. I've been with the single-player FPS from Wolfenstein 3D to now, and the games that have matched the cinematic scope and good presentation of Halo remain few and far between. Simply impugning it as average because advancing technology has skewed your views will not suffice.
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Offline Ghostavo

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
Simply impugning it as average because advancing technology has skewed your views will not suffice.

Right, because no one ever played FPS's before Halo...

This is the one thing I've never understood. Noone in these discussions brings up any game title released after Halo, and the most brought out response is "Oh, you can't appreciate modern games because Halo influenced them.". If that's a non sequitur, I don't know what is.

I've never seen Medal of Honor fans being as vocal as Halo fans, in spite of its impact being in the same ballpark.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
This is the one thing I've never understood. No one in these discussions brings up any game title released after Halo, and the most brought out response is "Oh, you can't appreciate modern games because Halo influenced them.". If that's a non sequitur, I don't know what is.

You have willfully misinterpreted this statement. I see no other way you could possibly derive something so utterly wrong from it. I am not saying this; I am saying that comparing games after Halo to Halo is unfair because of course they'll be able to do the basics like animation better; they're newer. Even a comparison of presentation and the like is fraught with peril, as the collective knowledge of mankind on the subject advances.

However very few games have ever attempted to be an FPS and present a coherent story as cleanly as Halo does. You're arguing it's not innovative in gameplay. I give no ****s about gameplay. I'm arguing it was revolutionary in telling a story, well, of great scope. It struck a very careful balance in so doing, one that most other games attempting to emulate this style have failed to meet. (CoD4 and its relatives come to mind.)

Also, this is a non-sequitor, as it has no relation to your argument.
Right, because no one ever played FPS's before Halo...
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Offline Ghostavo

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
This is the one thing I've never understood. No one in these discussions brings up any game title released after Halo, and the most brought out response is "Oh, you can't appreciate modern games because Halo influenced them.". If that's a non sequitur, I don't know what is.

You have willfully misinterpreted this statement. I see no other way you could possibly derive something so utterly wrong from it. I am not saying this; I am saying that comparing games after Halo to Halo is unfair because of course they'll be able to do the basics like animation better; they're newer. Even a comparison of presentation and the like is fraught with peril, as the collective knowledge of mankind on the subject advances.

However very few games have ever attempted to be an FPS and present a coherent story as cleanly as Halo does. You're arguing it's not innovative in gameplay. I give no ****s about gameplay. I'm arguing it was revolutionary in telling a story, well, of great scope. It struck a very careful balance in so doing, one that most other games attempting to emulate this style have failed to meet. (CoD4 and its relatives come to mind.)

And I'm not comparing modern games to it. Noone is. I'm arguing that everything Halo did had been done before.

I'm not arguing that it was a bad game, as I said before, it was a above average game, a good one. But people try to give it more importance by stating ridiculous things like it was innovative and whatnot (basically, they begin to sound like an Apple advertisement).

The previously mentioned Medal of Honor game did what Halo did, it was an award winning game that received several praises for it's story (created by Spielberg of all people), gameplay, whatnot. And it was also a console game. In 1999.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
Okay...how about we play the "Mongoose never posted in here" game, since this thread has managed to go to hell in a handbasket, and I honestly didn't want that.  Thanks for the mind-reading sessions, Battuta; at this point, I don't really suppose I can respond in any sense without looking like even more of a massive douchebag than I already seem.  That's really what I needed today.

So yeah, sorry for the crazy thread disruption.  Forget I was here.

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
Quit getting mad about video games. All of you. Halo is fun.
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Offline Pred the Penguin

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
I agree, Halo was very fun for me... that is up until Reach. After seeing the trailer I didn't really feel anything at all, the Halo universe, specifically a Master Chief driven universe, is dead to me. Here's hoping that it will at least have some different gameplay elements, but that sound unlikely already. :doubt:

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
Wow.  You've gotten one 30 second trailer that already shows something different and you're moaning about no different gameplay elements?

 

Offline Pred the Penguin

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Re: Epic 343 Industries Announcements - Master Chief is Back!
I said I hoped there would be something different, but do you think there will be anything that stands out?