Author Topic: Damn Bush!!  (Read 5728 times)

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Offline Kellan

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Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet

If everyone thought like you we'd all be dead, because the news for you is the world aint very nice. Anthrax, nerve gas, dirty nukes. And that happy man Saddamn Hussain is trying to get as much of those as possible, to blow us westerners into no, not the stone age, into oblivion. Military action is always needed when evil exists, we helped kick out the taliban and by doing that, you have Afgans freedom. Something im sure you value and something North Korea and Iraq dont have much of.


Right, so what you're saying is we should eradicate people unlike us before they do it to us first. There's a historical precedent for this - the desire of the American military following WW2. They had the Atom Bomb and the USSR did not - so they reasoned that before the USSR got one, they should destroy it. It's a pre-emptive strike...

By caving into the methods of toerrorists and dictators, we become little better ourselves. Just because Saddam wants to destroy the West doesn't mean we should destroy his nation. Besides, that works both ways: from Iraq they see America threatening to destroy their nation and respond with a "let's destroy them first" mentality.

Further to that, I'm yet to see conclusive proof that this time, Saddam actually has these weapons of mass destruction. Yes, denying inspectors access is suspicious, but I doubt very much that America will allow Russian inspectors in to check that the nuclear weapons they said they'd destroy the other day have been. Besides, deny to me that Bush has family scores to settle.

Finally on the Saddam point, we, the West, armed him in the first place so he could fight Iran, another nation that we didn't (and still don't, supposedly) like. So there. It's just our own hubris about controlling 'inferior' people and getting them to do our dirty work by proxy. :no:

In Afghanistan we have replaced terror not so much with freedom as another dangerous power vacuum. The Afghans may be allowed to play music, but they still have no food, homes or jobs. Yay for freedom; God Bless America.

Incidentally, when the Taliban first swept to power in Kabul (taking it from the very warlords to whom we have just returned it) they were welcomed by the public because they promised a return to order from lawlessness. Oh, and the West armed the Mujhedin (sp) as well so they could fight the USSR.

As for North Korea, it's a Communist country, and thus I guess must be automatically evil. It's different. :rolleyes: It's part of Bush's ridiculous and ill-defined 'spindle of atrocities' or whatever the hell it's called this week - something which patently doesn't exist. Korea may oppose Western capitalism, but it had nothing to do with the Sept. 11th attacks. Nor did Iran - it condemned them. The only country to publicly celebrate them was Iraq - yet these three contries are bunched together.

Recently, Bush and co. have widened the definition of 'states supporting terror' to include Syria, Cuba and some other one. Clearly there are scores to settle in Cuba, and it's the only reason at all that it has made the list. These states are not those responsible for the WTC attacks; and they are now being used as a justification for making the world a safer place - for American Republican Capitalism. Hooray. These states may be able to understand why the attacks took place, but they universally condemned them and by no means sponsored terrorism in any way related to 9/11.

It alarms and appals me that Britain is being drawn into this increasingly barmy "war on weird stuff - oh, and Osama, too". I mean, it's bad for America as well, but at least Britain can disassociate itself from it.

 
Quote
Originally posted by PhReAk


nothing, but Austrailia (close enough) did send troops.

Vietnam was a war of containment/domino theory.  The thinking of the time was that if South Vietnam fell to communism, then the neighboring countries would fall until you had a Soviet-backed commie regime right up against a Western ally.  Oh, don't listen to the media about Vietnam, they twisted the war to make it seem like we were losing when we were winning.  The only reason we "lost" Vietnam was the Johnson was micromanaging the war where he would do all the general's work.  Hitler did the same thing starting in the middle of WWII and look what happened.

That containment excuse is only a half-truth.
The US was in that country to maintain it own ecomonical ends.
They only tell the people what they want to hear.
Only the things that will prevent protest.

This country is not in any position to go after Iraq.
Once we war with China the American peiople will be in for a BIG suprize.

The United States is using this War On Terror bull**** to cover up these illegal wars aganist countries that place some kind of disadvantage in one way or another to the United States.

They are using 9/11 as an excuse to do things they always wanted to do but couldn't because of politics.
Also could be partly why they diddn't do much about this intelligence before 9/11.
Watching from the background since 17 April 2002.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Quote
Originally posted by killadonuts
America is run by idiots and one day it will burn to the ground.
We will probably live to see it too.


As with all nations. And there's nobody in the world competent enough to lead a nation properly. Got a point?;)

 
Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet
I dunno, you tell ME what Britain did in the Vietnam war?


Britain was too sensible to get involved thank you.
Actually i always thought the americans won in vietnam, excuse my ignorance but it just goes to show how well america covers its (numerous) mistakes.

Personally i don't like america's foriegn policey, it thinks it always right when it doesnt have half a clue whats going on 100 yards beyond its own borders.
Plus Macdonalds (grrrrr) comes from the US so it must be an evil country.

Odly enough i was discussing what motivates suicide bombers with my friends about 4 hours before it all happened on sept. 11th.
Funny old world.

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Offline Kellan

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Quote
Originally posted by PhReAk

Vietnam was a war of containment/domino theory.  The thinking of the time was that if South Vietnam fell to communism, then the neighboring countries would fall until you had a Soviet-backed commie regime right up against a Western ally.  Oh, don't listen to the media about Vietnam, they twisted the war to make it seem like we were losing when we were winning.  The only reason we "lost" Vietnam was the Johnson was micromanaging the war where he would do all the general's work.  Hitler did the same thing starting in the middle of WWII and look what happened.


Make no mistake, America was winning - but at enormous cost. Final victory would probably have come as a result of uncompromising scorched earth policies, which the US public found reprehensible. And when a war with the public is lost, the physical war is over too.

As for the domino theory, that was proved disastrously wrong. The US actually pre-emptively bombed Cambodia, creating an atmosphere in which the Communists came to power that would not have existed otherwise.

Besides, what's so wrong about the 'Commies'? Stalin stated that he wanted to keep Communism within the borders established after WW2 and assisted any insurrections in other nations (except Greece) - same as the West.

 
After the Cold War the US should've gone back into Isolationism. Instead of policing the world. (Not to mention the fact that they do a very bad job at it.)
Watching from the background since 17 April 2002.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet
Anthrax, nerve gas, dirty nukes. And that happy man Saddamn Hussain is trying to get as much of those as possible, to blow us westerners into no, not the stone age, into oblivion. Military action is always needed when evil exists...


So, what gives us the right to research all that but not him? On a realistic scale, we're every bit as likely to misuse them as Saddam. All our missile bans and sanctions are hypocrisy in the most revolting form, considering that we have enough nukes to blow the Earth to ash many times over, strains of nearly incurable plagues in our labs, and chemical weapons of every variety.

 If we were invaded by a superior ground force, you'd better believe we'd be seeing the fireworks show to end all fireworks shows, and the Iraqui army would react in xactly the same way were we to invade, since they know they'd have a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Rant all you like, Saddam has already evidenced a fair degree of stability and sanity by refraining from nuking or biobombing DC when he had the chance, and he really has to be a brilliant leader to keep his country together and more or less safe against the odds he faces. I mean, he has practically the entire world against him, and so far he's still around.

 

Offline Kellan

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Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet
The Media does twist things a lot. Its quite true Austrailia by a technicality comes under British territory in some way(as their head of state is the same as my head of state the "Queen".)


Funny; my head of State is the Prime Minister, Tony Blair. Do we live in different countries? :D

And regarding 9/11 again, and Pearl Harbor too:

It irritates me that people can get greater recognition for failing to stop and event and then reacting in a popular way to it, than actually preventing the event and informing the public about it.

Not to be a conspiracy theorist regarding Bush, but what else would be as effective at increasing the popularity of a President 50% of people think isn't legitimate and others criticize on a number of key policy issues?

 

Offline Kellan

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Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9

If we were invaded by a superior ground force, you'd better believe we'd be seeing the fireworks show to end all fireworks shows.


Agreed; it's not for nothing that they call nuclear weapons "weapons of last resort". Although they may not be used first, they will be used last. And since they're a weapon they are designed to be used.

Quote
Originally posted by Albert Einstein

I do not know what weapons World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.


:nod:

 

Offline Zeronet

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Quote
Originally posted by Kellan


Funny; my head of State is the Prime Minister, Tony Blair. Do we live in different countries? :D
 


Not true if i were to be technical. :p
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Offline Kellan

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Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet

Not true if i were to be technical. :p


I don't recognise the Queen as my sovereign. :p

As McCarthy in FS1 said "I answer to a higher authority!" :D

It's not that I hate the Queen per se, she's just been badly advised. Nobody advised her to declare a Republic.

 

Offline Zeronet

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Quote
Originally posted by Kellan


I don't recognise the Queen as my sovereign. :p

As McCarthy in FS1 said "I answer to a higher authority!" :D

It's not that I hate the Queen per se, she's just been badly advised. Nobody advised her to declare a Republic.


Im a Republican, i was just stating the facts. Still we could never get rid of them funny as they run that religion.

Also World War 4 would not be fought with sticks and stones, because we have computer power. We can store information in bunkers(which they did/do during the late 20th) etc and store equipment for war.

About Saddamn, the only thing keeping him around is the Muslim states around him and pretty soon its going to turn sour for him, when we start bombing all his complexes. Saddamn is luckily enough so insane, he believes he could win, Saddamn has never had the chance to nuke anyone because theres a big no fly zone which we patrol. Stability in Iraq? Well i dont know what you call stability these days oh yes, he used to bomb and use bio/chem weapons his own people before we set up the no-fly zone, such a "brilliant" leader isnt he?
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Offline Kellan

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Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet

Im a Republican, i was just stating the facts. Still we could never get rid of them funny as they run that religion.


:wtf: Uuumm, how does religion come into this? The government could abolish the monarchy at any time it wished, if it had majority support.

Quote
Also World War 4 would not be fought with sticks and stones, because we have computer power. We can store information in bunkers(which they did/do during the late 20th) etc and store equipment for war.[/b]


That would not make a cool and catchy quote. :D Besides, if nuclear war happened so quickly who would be around to remember where the weapons were, how to use them - or indeed put them there to begin with?

Anyway, 'twas a figure of speech. You can imagine the devastation necessary to fight a war with sticks. And besides, you could never fight a world war with sticks and stones. They don't have a long enough range, and it implies that communications and power, as well as transport, are all defunct. :p

Quote
About Saddamn, the only thing keeping him around is the Muslim states around him and pretty soon its going to turn sour for him, when we start bombing all his complexes.[/B]


I can barely wait. Gulf War II: The Vengeance, showing in theatres of combat thousands of miles away from you this Autumn. A Saturday Matinee treat.

 

Offline Zeronet

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Quote
Originally posted by Kellan


:wtf: Uuumm, how does religion come into this? The government could abolish the monarchy at any time it wished, if it had majority support.



That would not make a cool and catchy quote. :D Besides, if nuclear war happened so quickly who would be around to remember where the weapons were, how to use them - or indeed put them there to begin with?

Anyway, 'twas a figure of speech. You can imagine the devastation necessary to fight a war with sticks. And besides, you could never fight a world war with sticks and stones. They don't have a long enough range, and it implies that communications and power, as well as transport, are all defunct. :p



I can barely wait. Gulf War II: The Vengeance, showing in theatres of combat thousands of miles away from you this Autumn. A Saturday Matinee treat.


The Queen is the head of the church of england, nuclear war isnt quick, nukes dont suddenly arrive out of no where and i dont think war is something to be made a joke out of, "War is hell".
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Offline Kellan

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Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet

The Queen is the head of the church of england


Yes. And? How does this stop anyone from removing her from the position of monarch? She can either be head of the CoE without being monarch or the Church of England can be disestablished. I don't see why it should get my tax money.

Quote
nuclear war isnt quick, nukes dont suddenly arrive out of no where and i dont think war is something to be made a joke out of, "War is hell". [/B]


Indeed. Well, nukes could be 'relatively' quick when used as a first-strike weapon - as in, 16 minutes to cross the globe. I don't think you'd get ever-so-much stowed away in those minutes. :D

I agree though that if a war is sustained or an army prepared, stuff can be stored. Still, if nobody remembers where it is...

 

Offline Zeronet

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Well thats true, i meant you couldnt totally disband them from existance. But i agree the CoE should be disestablished and NI should be given back to Ireland.
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Offline Shrike

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Quote
Originally posted by beatspete
Personally i don't like america's foriegn policey, it thinks it always right when it doesnt have half a clue whats going on 100 yards beyond its own borders.
Plus Macdonalds (grrrrr) comes from the US so it must be an evil country.
Oh, boo boo kitty ****.  Every superpower throughout history has done the same.
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Offline phreak

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Quote
Originally posted by killadonuts

That containment excuse is only a half-truth.
The US was in that country to maintain it own ecomonical ends.


economics?  Vietnam had nothing that we wanted from them economically,  its all forest and rice paddies.
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Offline Carl

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do you know how many times bin laden threatened us? he never carried out any of the other stuff he said he was gonna do, so there was no reason to believe him this ime.
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Offline Shrike

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You know why all you people are anti-American?  Because the Americans are on top.  If it was the brits on top you'd the spewing the exact same thing except replacing 'Bush' with 'Blair'.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.