[Kosh]

Man, those rating agencies sure hold a lot of power over countries that are supposed to be of the people, for the people, etc...

Debt is debt, some is good some is not so good.

[Unknown Target]

Yes, clearly we should have some kind of anarchic system that could only be enforced by the threat of violence.

That would be a bad idea IMO. Though not necessarily dissimilar to international law in some respects.

It's funny that you went to that as your response though; nothing I said implied anything of the sort. Do you have something you'd like to say aloud?

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-adds-constitutional-amendment-budget-fight-190757159.html

A constitutional amendment, eh? Wow. I don't think people realize that even if this does pass, there really is a good chance it won't. Society is that dysfunctional right now.

[LordPomposity]

(snow will fall on the equator before politicans will actually stop arguing and gather to do something for thier country)

Volcán Cayambe, Ecuador.

I have contributed meaningfully to this discussion.

[jr2]

Man, those rating agencies sure hold a lot of power over countries that are supposed to be of the people, for the people, etc...

Debt is debt, some is good some is not so good.

25% debt to credit ratio is what is recommended for personal finances... US is looking like 98% ATM, right?

[Topgun]

was I the only one expecting a political cartoon where the national debt is actually a character and talks when they read the thread title?

[IceFire]

So in my view... you've had the free lunch. Now it's time to pay some taxes. Especially if you make boatloads of money. That's what the rest of the developed world does.

[Luis Dias]

Not the Friggin US of A, no it aint!

TAzxes are Xocialistic n communist!

Dont let the commy muslim take the Freeeedom our Lord the Saviour of this planet has given us to protect (with gans!)

Taxin the rich is like drainin' the resources from above. Sprinkle Down economics FTW!

/sarcasm .... or rather "how I wish nobody was like that"

[Thaeris]

From what I've heard, the majority of individually rich individuals do pay a fairly high percentage of what they make. A genuine problem seems to be that wealthy corporations seem to be getting off without paying taxes:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/01/ge-exxon-walmart-business-washington-corporate-taxes.html
http://www.alternet.org/economy/150598/how_12_multinational_corporations_avoid_paying_taxes/

Outsourcing furthermore reduces the manufacturing worth of the US, while corruption in the name of profiteering hurts the would-be US professionals, whether they be laymen, factory workers, and even scientists and engineers. Chew on that one.

[Grizzly]

Shouldn't the US rating be put at "Junk" a long time ago? If Portugal had it... The US situation seams te be off worse.

[Luis Dias]

Its not worse *at all*. Everyone still buys dollars, that's pretty much a guarantee right there. USA is still growing its economy and Portugal is stalled for a decade now. Please don't compare.

[Unknown Target]

From what I've heard, the majority of individually rich individuals do pay a fairly high percentage of what they make. A genuine problem seems to be that wealthy corporations seem to be getting off without paying taxes:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/01/ge-exxon-walmart-business-washington-corporate-taxes.html
http://www.alternet.org/economy/150598/how_12_multinational_corporations_avoid_paying_taxes/

Outsourcing furthermore reduces the manufacturing worth of the US, while corruption in the name of profiteering hurts the would-be US professionals, whether they be laymen, factory workers, and even scientists and engineers. Chew on that one.

You really hit it here; it's not so much the individuals as much as it is large, extremely profitable companies who have managed through various means to avoid contributing to the society which they are a part of. People like to try and blame the individually rich, but really most of their worth is in their stock options etc, IIRC.

[Thaeris]

Now, it might also be accurate to state that the tax brackets need to be better adapted to suit the lower- and middle- class, featuring a more gradual climb over the lower incomes, rising up more slightly once the individual breaks 100K - making a model to illustrate this would be trivial, though I admit I don't care about doing such at this time. Also keep in mind that no one is really going to ever be satisfied with what the tax brackets settle upon, anyway.

However, commerce, trade, and industry are really what fuels an economy - income is made to be spent. When the companies benefitting from the spending aren't putting back into the system, you've got a major bust moving into the system. It's just a matter of time.

[JCDNWarrior]

Everything I've seen the Obama administration do the past days reeks of financial terrorism. 'warning' taxes will rise, social security can't be paid, yet when this gets passed, it doesn't even go into the economy. Of course the controlled two-party system will waste time debating it and then just pass it when no one's looking.

Also, Thaeris hit it on the head there. Big multinational companies and the biggest banks are the only ones benefiting of the dismal state of the economies of Europe and the USA, and make money on the way up and down. Makes me curious if qui bono (sp?) should be considered.

The only thing that truly is going to change is that the people of the USA do not benefit from the anglo-american empire anymore, the entire economy and workforce seems to have been put as collateral for the empire. Interesting times, curious what we can expect next.

As usual, just my opinion on things. Hope it contributes to the conversation.

[WeatherOp]

Meh, we are done for whether they raise the ceiling or not. The question is do we bite the bullet now or later.

[Mika]

Also, Thaeris hit it on the head there. Big multinational companies and the biggest banks are the only ones benefiting of the dismal state of the economies of Europe and the USA, and make money on the way up and down. Makes me curious if qui bono (sp?) should be considered.

The thing is, to whom are they exactly going to sell their products if the buying power in USA and EU drops? And to whom banks are going to give loans if it isn't smart for people under the economical situation?

[Flipside]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14258888

Boehner walks out of the talks. I'm not quite sure what game he's playing here, whether he's hoping to push things to the last minute to get concessions, but if so, it seems to be a dangerous thing to be doing with the US economy at stake.

[WeatherOp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14258888

Boehner walks out of the talks. I'm not quite sure what game he's playing here, whether he's hoping to push things to the last minute to get concessions, but if so, it seems to be a dangerous thing to be doing with the US economy at stake.

Meh, neither side wants a deal until like six hours before crunch time. Obama wants to say, "Look at me, I am the master of compromise and orchestrated this deal.", Republicans want to say "We won one for the American people, despite the Democrats." and the Democrats want to say, "We won one for the American people, despite the Republicans."

If a deal is not reached and we do suffer some type of default, I will be beyond shocked. As of right now, we are only seeing the APWF(American Politics Wrestling Foundation) put on a good show. Afterwards there will be a lot of trash talking, but in reality they will be just counting their dough. All the while everybody is watching, paying the low, low price of $49.95.

[redsniper]

I've said it before and I'll say again... Any politician would happily watch the country go down in flames before giving an inch to the other party, as long as they can blame it on said other party.

[Unknown Target]

I honestly don't know why everyone is so super confident that they'll reach a compromise. If they do reach one, I won't really be surprised, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't reach one, either. *Shrug* Suffice to say, I won't be surprised at either outcome. The former would occur if both sides realized how childish they're being, while the latter would be the culmination of years of childish animosity between two disagreeable sides. Either way, the Republicans and Democrats (aka the US government) are two halves of a giant dysfunctional family that just can't get along because of their own petty problems.

Whew wish I could word that better, I'm exhausted from cycling all day.

[Thaeris]

Damn it to Hell.

I'm making a point of voting Libertarian next time elections roll around.