Author Topic: The debt talks  (Read 26174 times)

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Offline Unknown Target

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That's awfully cynical of you, redsniper. Too cynical, I would say.

 

Offline redsniper

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I'd love to be wrong. I'd love for the rich and super-wealthy to decide they have "enough" and throw the rest of their money into space exploration and other stuff improving the world as a whole. I'd love it if they could say "I don't mind giving a little extra to my country to help it out." But that doesn't ever really seem to happen.

If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.
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The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

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Offline NGTM-1R

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That's awfully cynical of you, redsniper. Too cynical, I would say.

One does not become super-rich by giving away money. Cynicism has nothing to do with it.
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Offline Unknown Target

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I'd love to be wrong. I'd love for the rich and super-wealthy to decide they have "enough" and throw the rest of their money into space exploration and other stuff improving the world as a whole. I'd love it if they could say "I don't mind giving a little extra to my country to help it out." But that doesn't ever really seem to happen.

If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

They had that in Germany a little while ago, and historically it's happened before I believe (I'm sorry, I can't remember where I've seen it, though I have). If you paint everyone with the same brush you could stand to lose a lot of potential friends, and jade folks who really are trying to help. With something like this I think it'd be best to give them the benefit of the doubt - after all, you could always test their resolve by raising the taxes and seeing which one of them go along with it.

 

Offline Kosh

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I'd love to be wrong. I'd love for the rich and super-wealthy to decide they have "enough" and throw the rest of their money into space exploration and other stuff improving the world as a whole. I'd love it if they could say "I don't mind giving a little extra to my country to help it out." But that doesn't ever really seem to happen.

If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.


What about the billions Bill Gates is giving away?
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Unknown Target

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The two most dangerous trends of these times are to make villains of people simply because they have money, and to make inconsequential those who don't.

 
Hmm. Fitch has decided not to change the US rating and even has given a positive outlook, for reasons beyond my understanding.

  

Offline Turambar

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Nobody wants the USA to fail (outside of certain extremist groups).  If it does, the rest of the world is gonna see tough times economically. 
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline Kosh

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Hmm. Fitch has decided not to change the US rating and even has given a positive outlook, for reasons beyond my understanding.


I'm not sure about Fitch but the single biggest reason Moody's didn't downgrade was Warren Buffet didn't want to and he is a major shareholder.


Quote
Nobody wants the USA to fail (outside of certain extremist groups).  If it does, the rest of the world is gonna see tough times economically.

The dollar has some very very serious fundamental problems with it and one of them is total lack of political will in Washington to make the hard choices needed to solve the other fundamental problems.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Turambar

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The dollar has some very very serious fundamental problems with it and one of them is total lack of political will in Washington to make the hard choices needed to solve the other fundamental problems.

No argument there.  I wonder what will break first?  Will the US get its political **** together, or will the rest of the world get strong enough that they don't need us anymore?
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 
No argument there.  I wonder what will break first?  Will the US get its political **** together, or will the rest of the world get strong enough that they don't need us anymore?
I wouldn't hold your breath either way. :doubt:
"…ignorance, while it checks the enthusiasm of the sensible, in no way restrains the fools…"
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Offline Kosh

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The dollar has some very very serious fundamental problems with it and one of them is total lack of political will in Washington to make the hard choices needed to solve the other fundamental problems.

No argument there.  I wonder what will break first?  Will the US get its political **** together, or will the rest of the world get strong enough that they don't need us anymore?


It will get its **** together eventually, but the question is when and after how much damage has been done. The dollar losing its currency reserve status has very severe consequences for the world and even more severe consequences for the US.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 
Nobody wants the USA to fail (outside of certain extremist groups).  If it does, the rest of the world is gonna see tough times economically.

Well, I actually do, since the USA has been failing and causing economic tough times for years now. If it really fails again it will people incentive to try and rely on a more stable region and currency.

* -Joshua- 's obvious EU bias is obvious :P.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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No argument there.  I wonder what will break first?  Will the US get its political **** together, or will the rest of the world get strong enough that they don't need us anymore?

Apple *cough*
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Seeing how things are going, how almost no one in D.C and politics even knows how to fix the crisis, just continuing the status quo, I don't think they'll stop until the economy is completely crashed and you'll start to live as a third world nation. It happened to Argentina (sp?), one of the richest nations at one point until a similar event happened. Now it's a horrible place to be unless you're the top 0.01% that caused it in the first place.

Unless you adapt a fiscal responsible stance and stop the wars, bring the troops home and lower taxes, stop wayward spending and printing of money, encourage industries and companies to grow and thrive, you're going into 3rd world status. It's impossible to pay off the debt by raising taxes and cutting services, it just makes the collapse that much worse.  Now there's one candidate in the GOP that has a lot of knowledge and plans to actually implement that, Ron Paul, which is one reason you should definitely vote for him. Wish the Democratic side had someone similar to him, but perhaps you can still vote for him (not sure how that works for democratic voters).

Huge companies like Google, Apple, Microsoft will persist and exist, but you'll be dependent on employees stationed in China and India for any assistance. If they'll even take your call.
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Unless you adapt a fiscal responsible stance and stop the wars, bring the troops home and lower taxes, stop wayward spending and printing of money, encourage industries and companies to grow and thrive, you're going into 3rd world status. It's impossible to pay off the debt by raising taxes and cutting services, it just makes the collapse that much worse.

There are many third world countries with very low taxes on companies, and the companies thrive. I don't get how lowering taxes will fix anything. It'll just mean that the government won't have money for things like education, infrastructure, and social programs. That'll result in a country where all the poorest people are poorly educated and have no support from the government, which sounds an awful lot like a third world country.

My money goes further when it's pooled together with other people's money.

 
Well what happens is, lower taxes means multiple things, such as ensuring the money is actually spent in the economy, buying food, goods, services instead of centrally stored in the treasury where it stays for a long time until it's being used for big projects that only a few big corporations have a use for. You're able to provide most government services with basic taxes, especially when the economy is supported by a strong middle class. Third world countries may have low taxes, but it only benefits the top 1% (or less) because they don't have a middle class, serving only as safe havens for huge corporations.

Your money can go much further when you're able to spend it for your own goals, the more money you saved up the bigger investments you can make. This also results in economic growth, which can lead to more jobs, meaning less people dependant on government. In time, as its a process, you'll find that, combined with the other things I mentioned, come out much stronger than continuing the way things go now.
At this point most (new) taxes are redistribution of wealth, which especially with big bureaucratic government causes most of the redistributed wealth spent off-shore or only to a select few (such as special providers of food and services for the royal families in the middle ages)

That's my view on it at least.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 04:50:24 pm by JCDNWarrior »
I'm all about getting the most out of games, so whenever I discover something very strange or push the limits, I upload them here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCDentonCZ

-----------------

The End of History has come and gone.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Low taxes is great, but to advise lowering taxes with such a budget problem is just insanity by the right wing. It's the belief that someone can take the cake and eat it too. But america is filled with magical thinking, so it's about right.

 
But america is filled with magical thinking, so it's about right.

Like meritocracy.  :rolleyes:


edit: I really don't think that not paying taxes and keeping the money for myself achieves more. I hear all sorts of stories about Americans being unable to afford things for themselves, like health care. Could you imagine if everyone was expected to pay for their kids' schooling and the roads outside their house, all by themselves? You would have the 1% who've got great roads and education, and everyone else wouldn't have anything.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 06:27:56 pm by bobbtmann »

 

Offline Unknown Target

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*Cough* you mean like now?