Poll

Which Beam Sizing do you Prefere?

The old, retail sizing
20 (20.6%)
The new, Hades sizing
43 (44.3%)
Mixed reaction
34 (35.1%)

Total Members Voted: 97

Author Topic: Beam Sizing  (Read 28527 times)

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Offline Zacam

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Latter. Not ladder.

And you're wrong again. FSU lends itself to retaining Retail Playability (in terms of the mechanics and most definitely the story line) of the Campaign (especially in terms of maintaining it's balance), while providing upgrades to the visual or model experience. By the logic of your argument, changing the colors of the Subach is a game breaking floodgate. Making a bitmapped weapon use particles, would be a game breaking change.

The beam-glows as a visual representation of the beam impact nothing save for visual aesthetic. Not only is the effect different than retail, but it's sizing is in accordance to preference and aesthetic taste. And that is something that can and will differ from person to person.

Nothing stops anybody from deciding to plug in the retail numbers for the beam-glow radius into an TBM and having fun. But for us, and for me, those sizes just don't work with the current effect or the beams that are in the MediaVPs. And we've already established that the beams themselves are retail sized and that (unlike 3.6.8/3.6.10) behave in retail fashion.

Any psuedo-science conversation is exactly that, merely side conversation that is not in fact actually having any bearing on the decision, because the decision was made based on visual aesthetic, not psuedo-scientific notions. Those I only just came up with in a response to Valathils not-so-serious post and as such, is a not-so-serious answer and is further ended with a (In my opinion), which I am able to keep personal opinion separate from professional direction, so don't read so much into it and assume that it's driving the professional mandate of the rest of the team, k? Especially when you then follow with your own in citing that it's "set 100s of years in the future" and then make a conjecture as to where it's science will stand at that point in time.

And no, canon is not wrong. Nobody ever said it was. But if canon was the only thing to go by, and if was never to be touched, this project wouldn't exist because there would be no updated higher poly models or effects to play with. How they get played with, and what the end results are, the opinions will vary from person to person and that's not really something that can be argued. All we can do as a team is try and incorporate all the suggestions and all the feedback and all the submissions that are made and try to ensure they they are playable by one and all. And not everybody is going to be happy about it. We're not trying to make everybody happy. Just so long as at the end of the day, it works and that the largest number of people are willing to deal with it (and preferably enjoy it), then we've made our goal.

So, basically, if it comes down to you as a solitary individual not liking what the end result of the collaboration is, you're free to make and post your own works based on your opinion that those that are like minded can enjoy. But we ARE trying to take your feedback into account as much as possible and we HAVE listened to you, so try not being so dramatic with the reaction, okay?
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Offline sigtau

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Looking back at these posts, I'm starting to air more on the side that the BFRed, BGreen, BFGreen, and BVas need to be enlarged a good bit from the Hades sizing, but other than that, the adjustments made to the other beams (slashers, SRed, LRed, SVas, and if applicable, AAA) are perfectly okay.

Not necessarily saying that they need to be sized back to retail, but as long as the Sathanas and Colossus beaming each other to death looks as impressive as the respective ship models do, there's absolutely nothing wrong with these changes.
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Offline bigchunk1

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First off...
Quote
...
We ARE trying to take your feedback into account as much as possible and we HAVE listened to you, so try not being so dramatic with the reaction, okay?
...
Let me be absolutely clear when I say this... I think you guys are the best! Zacam speant hours late one night debugging models for my mod as well as showed me a fiew tricks, Hades helped me out on bp multi when it was just getting started, and mjn well... does what mjn does which is awesome so I hope that proves my point. I just feel strongly about this ya know... I love this game. This thread is like... uh... court or something, but we can still party after.

Next
Quote
...
Any psuedo-science conversation is exactly that, merely side conversation that is not in fact actually having any bearing on the decision, because the decision was made based on visual aesthetic, not psuedo-scientific notions.
...

That's really what I was getting at. I believe we understand eachother then.   :D
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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.

 

Offline headdie

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My 2p worth of opinion is.

Bgreen, Bred, BVas and the other direct fire anti-cap beams need to be big, lots of glow showing that they have lots of power.  Slashing beams be big or small, they can be justified either way.  Anti-fighter beams need to be thin and surgical looking as befitting their use.
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Offline bigchunk1

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Ok, I completed a possible update for the mv_effects-wep.tbm and tested it using the beam test mission. Here are the results.
Mediavps3612:

Proposed changes .tbm:

Retail:


The tables are available for download here. Just put them in freespace/mediavps_3612/data/tables to try them out. Recommend trying them with the beam test mission I made a few pages ago in this thread.

Changelog:
1. Restored retail beam sizes, both width and warmup radius for the bfred and the bfgreen
2. cut down on particle count for the bfred and the bfgreen by roughly 1/3
3. used the mathematical average between 3612 and retail's warmup bulb sizes for the bgreen
4. Reduced the lred's relative size of the 2nd largest beam section to create a cleaner looking beam.
5. pcount and pradius reduced slightly for the lred and bgreen (1/3)
6. used weighted mathematical average (2*hades + retail)/3 for the terslash and vslash warmup bulb
7. reduced particle size by roughly 1/3 on the terslash
8. used weighted mathematical average (2*hades + retail)/3 for the LTerSlash and Sred warmup bulb size
9. Retail radius restored for the LRed warmup bulb
10. Reduced particle count and radius for the BVas and Svas and Sred by roughly 1/3
11. used weighted mathematical average (2*hades + retail)/3 for the BVas warmup bulb size
12. Sgreen, SVas and  all AAA beams have been left untouched from Mediavps3612
13. MjolnirBeam has been left untouched, with intent to resize it later.
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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.

 

Offline Valathil

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This actually looks pretty close to perfect imho
┏┓╋┏┓╋╋╋╋╋╋╋╋╋┏┓
┃┃╋┃┃╋╋╋╋╋╋╋╋╋┃┃
┃┃┏┫┃┏┳━━┓┏━━┓┃┗━┳━━┳━━┳━━┓
┃┃┣┫┗┛┫┃━┫┃┏┓┃┃┏┓┃┏┓┃━━┫━━┫
┃┗┫┃┏┓┫┃━┫┃┏┓┃┃┗┛┃┗┛┣━━┣━━┃
┗━┻┻┛┗┻━━┛┗┛┗┛┗━━┻━━┻━━┻━━┛

 

Offline Dragon

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Sathanas beams stilll need sizing up a bit, try increasing them by about 1.3 .
Otherwise, looks great.

 

Offline Hades

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Yuck, I frankly think they look too big. Really before you propose any changes, you'd need the most current table of them, which is on the SVN. I'll see if I can get that for you.
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Offline Mongoose

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Those revised glows look much better.

 

Offline headdie

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My only issue is the Ravana is firing pink puke, otherwise pic 2 looks good
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Offline Kolgena

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BFRed needs to be bigger than BGreen, but otherwise, I like this direction more. See how much refining can be done with the SVN table though.

 
I like the bigchunk sizing, IMHO it's a good compromise between retail and make-sense.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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I think the LRed glow could be a little smaller, it gets close to engulfing the front half of the Lilith again. I could deal with the other changes.

 
I like the bigger beginning glow in the mediavps. Especially on the Ravanna, the small glow doesn't make for a very good junction between the ship and the beam. Other than that, I don't mind the smaller beams. They do look a bit weaker though.

 

Offline pecenipicek

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Offline Veers

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Looks fantastic atm imo, the colour might be slightly off but that shouldnt be a major problem right now. but the sizing is definately looking more realistic, not swallowing up some of the ships when they fire.  :yes:
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Offline fightermedic

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the ones from bigchunk1 look the best!
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Offline Vasudan Admiral

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I like it. :)
The tiny glows just look too much like little star trek phasers to me. Beam cannons have always been BIG!
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