Author Topic: Let's talk about the sound code... again.  (Read 15918 times)

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
 23:01   QuantumDelta    • probably a good idea
 23:01   QuantumDelta    • how do you vary nebula lightning strikes normally btw?
 23:01   Axem            • what
 23:01   QuantumDelta    • in fred somehow?
 23:02   Axem            • RC?!
 23:02   Axem            • yeah QD
 23:02   Axem            • there's some storm settings in FRED
 23:02   Axem            • theyre rather coarse though i think
 23:04   Axem            • there's standard, active, medium and the ever favorite, emp
 23:05   QuantumDelta    • which one is the one used in the mission I've been videoing?
 23:05   Axem            • i dunno
 23:05   Axem            • which mission is it
 23:06   QuantumDelta    • uhmmm
 23:06   QuantumDelta    • with the warspite and lucidity and the two freighters....
 23:07   Axem            • Battle of the Wilderness?
 23:07   QuantumDelta    • might be?
 23:07   Axem            • +Storm: s_active
 23:09   QuantumDelta    • I wonder what the flash differences are..
 23:14   Axem            • http://pastebin.com/RtN7Nhx9
 23:14   Axem            • active is the heaviest
 23:14   Axem            • thats not the actual table
 23:14   Axem            • i just cut out the timing parts
 23:46   QuantumDelta    • I was gonna suggest some clever idea for how to change those timings so they'd work but uhh
 23:46   QuantumDelta    • 350-550, 500-900, 900-1850 sounds fine to me :<

obviously there are gameplay implications with changing the emp nebula flash though.. but sound wise those values sound right
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Offline jr2

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
change the EMP and sound so they are controlled in separate tables, e.g., you can have an 'active' storm, but the EMP effects are low.  This would also be helpful for if they develop "hardened" fighters in a mission that are more insulated against EMP.

Good idea, yes/no?

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
How close are we to locking in reasonable numbers here?  We'd like to start the RC phase and we were thinking if this is still needing some input we could commit the configurable stuff to trunk, and lock it in for a final 3.6.14 release.
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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
My offered numbers are based on a few tests, of which the comparison is visible (in terms of percentages of sound) in my last video with the input from cyborg making the note to factor in that the other nebulae have different levels.
It just needs a bit of legwork from some other people to see if it's not just 'to my tastes' or so.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
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I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline Iss Mneur

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
How close are we to locking in reasonable numbers here?  We'd like to start the RC phase and we were thinking if this is still needing some input we could commit the configurable stuff to trunk, and lock it in for a final 3.6.14 release.

Well, only 2 people have actually offered any data to me, which results in 3 data points, which IMHO is not enough.

Also Taylor is working on some more proper fixes that may actually remove the need for any of my tweaks.
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Offline pecenipicek

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
i think this is one of the things that really REALLY shouldnt be hard-coded to the engine, as what might sound good with one set of effects, might sound crap with another set of effects.

Come one coders, you're not supposed to only keep everything retail-like and hard-coded, add another table for things like this and give us modders ways to work out things on our own as well.
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Offline Iss Mneur

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
i think this is one of the things that really REALLY shouldnt be hard-coded to the engine, as what might sound good with one set of effects, might sound crap with another set of effects.

Come one coders, you're not supposed to only keep everything retail-like and hard-coded, add another table for things like this and give us modders ways to work out things on our own as well.

With respect to the speakers and audio cards, find the settings (with retail assets) that you like the best with whatever you play the game with.  I am going to make whatever the consensus is the defaults for the engine.  The cmdline flags are not staying.

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Offline Axem

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Okay, so to help get the RC cycle going, I decided to help.

http://lazymodders.fsmods.net/files/NewSoundCodeTestMission.rar

Here's some test missions for people to play to experiment around with the settings.

ClippingTest.fs2 tries very hard to clip audio. 12 Fighters all jump in right next to the player at the same time, then 6 mjolnirs fire at the same time.

My experience with that: -alwaysenforce + -listenergain around 0.5 - 0.65 sounded the best. (I preferred 0.5 personally)

NebTest.fs2 will cycle through the different storm types in FreeSpace to test -percent_flashtobang. Every 25s, a new storm type. I liked 30 in my opinion, though seeing close lightning without any sound was kind of odd. s_active is still too noisy for me though :p

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Using on-board RealTek on this rig (:(), 5.1 setup, soft_oal.dll as "Speakers (RealTek High Definition Audio) via DirectSound"

I used ' -alwaysenforce -listenergain 0.5 -percent_flashtobang 50'

Which seemed pretty good in all cases. The beams still clipped ever so slightly, but much better than it was.
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Offline pecenipicek

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
With respect to the speakers and audio cards, find the settings (with retail assets) that you like the best with whatever you play the game with.  I am going to make whatever the consensus is the defaults for the engine.  The cmdline flags are not staying.
"The cmdline flags are not staying" part is what got my red flag waving around, as it implies that you will hardcode it and be done with it
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Offline Zacam

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.

Which is the best way to ensure a Retail like level of consistency in regards to particular environments.

If you want more expansion outside of that for a mod end, then you're looking at a modular sounds.tbl and using the sound_env.tbl for your mod, not dealing with the elements that these options are going to be setting up.
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Offline Davros

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Does the sound problem happen for all cards ?
Ive never heard it could that be because my soundcard is capable of 128 simultaneous sounds ?
also could it be an openal problem would sending the openal devs a bug report be worthwhile ?

 

Offline pecenipicek

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Does the sound problem happen for all cards ?
in various amounts, yes.
Quote
Ive never heard it could that be because my soundcard is capable of 128 simultaneous sounds ?
You just might be one of the lucky ones who have cards which have proper hardware mixers, but even with my Audigy 2ZS i have these problems sometimes.
Quote
also could it be an openal problem would sending the openal devs a bug report be worthwhile ?
Doubtful.
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Offline Zacam

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.

So, as promised, I ran a lot of testing. I modified the .patch to compile to Antipodes, since that is what I do most of my testing with, but with that in mind, I will be repeating all of my tests again with Trunk.

I also need to test under "Generic Software" as well, which I will do and either update this post, or make an additional post (which ever is preferred)

  • FSO Selection: Speakers (Creative SB X-Fi) via DirectSound
  • Sound Device: X-Fi Fatality XtremeGamer
  • Driver: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi series driver 2.18.0015
  • OpenAL version:  2.0.7.0 Installer (OpenAL 1.1; OpenAL32.dll version 6.14.357.24; wrap_oal.dll version 2.2.0.5)
  • OpenAL Soft (version and type): 1.13, soft_oal.dll
  • Speaker Setup: 4.1 (Windows: Quadraphonic)
  • Settings found Acceptable: -alwaysenforce -listenergain 0.5 -percent_flashtobang 55

As for the hardcoded stuff: What we are looking at and for HERE are being able to accurate represent and reproduce the "Retail" environment for effects playback that is consistent across the board.

OTHER things, like a flexible modular sounds.tbl and active use of the sound_env.tbl (which practically NOBODY is currently familiar with and I would LOVE for taylor, if he could one more time, post that and explain it for people so we can get it into the wiki) are what will allow for the non-hardcoded leverage of taking advantage of this new sound code. To be able to allow mod's to have the ability to control environment, sample playback amounts and/or gain and everything else is NOT what the purpose of THIS current testing is about. Those ARE issues and they DO need to be addressed, but not within the scope of THIS testing. Yes, it WILL be nice also being able to control these values outside of hard coded values. But we NEED the hard coded values FIRST to establish what the defacto baseline is so that pioneering sound engineers (no pun intended) know that what is heard on one system has a better chancre of still sounding just like that on another system.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 05:24:12 am by Zacam »
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[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
 :bump:
Would be a shame to let this issue slip into oblivion again when there was finally some progress getting made
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Offline chief1983

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Don't worry, it won't.  I've been too busy this week to follow up due to a global summit at work, but as soon as that's over I'm going to be diving straight into getting something in to rectify the situation enough for the RC.
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Don't worry, it won't.  I've been too busy this week to follow up due to a global summit at work, but as soon as that's over I'm going to be diving straight into getting something in to rectify the situation enough for the RC.
Excellent  :yes:
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[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline torc

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
if is possible, i wanna notice that the atom.wav sound is tied only at  Flags: "Capital"  in ships.tbl.

If the Flag is "supercap" or "freighter" the atom.wav not work.

Hope you can fix this bug :)
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Offline chief1983

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
Is it Mantis'd?  Be a good idea to point out the number if so, and it probably won't get fixed if not.
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redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
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Offline torc

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Re: Let's talk about the sound code... again.
ehm...i don't know use mantis :(

Could you please do this for me?
Thanks in advance :)
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