Author Topic: Regarding the "job shortages"  (Read 5002 times)

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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
I would support some form of population control, too. Right now, from a global viewpoint, it is the people that contribute the least that reproduce the most. This seems to be almost universaly true. Then you get starving children in africa and a global recession from which population-controlling China is magically exempt. So it is a possible cause, IMHO.

Basic income is also a good idea, already de facto implemented in developed world.

As for unlimited growth someone mentioned, I believe there is a way to have sustainable unlimited growth, if the growth is based on scientific progress, which seems to continue growing with little limitations.
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Offline Mars

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
I'd be careful of the form of population control it seems like you all are fond of. . . simply declaring a child cap has proven to be quite a pain in the ass, and it would probably be a bad idea to do it by income.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
i would only go for the population control if basic human needs becomes a civil right. less every bum decides to get together and have an orgy. contraceptives would definitely become part of the freeloader kit. if youre not working and taking advantage of the free apartment and noms, you would be capped at one child per adult, having a second would be illegal and might result in a court ordered sterilization. which is fair, you know the law and that you shouldn't break it and are even given the means to avoid breaking it. working adults would not be thusly limited.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 09:27:32 am by Nuke »
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Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
I'd be careful of the form of population control it seems like you all are fond of. . . simply declaring a child cap has proven to be quite a pain in the ass, and it would probably be a bad idea to do it by income.

I don't think we need to go to the extreme of somewhere like China and say, "You can only have ___ children," but right now, welfare programs are set up so that the people least able to financially support their children are encouraged to breed nonstop and this is where most of the problem is coming from.

More babies = bigger piece of government cheese. It shouldn't work like that. Someone's going to have to get tough and step on a few toes and tell these people to STOP BREEDING and change the welfare system so that it actually helps people instead of becoming a crutch that some people are content to lean on for their entire lives. I don't agree with letting people starve in the streets, but there has to be some basic level of personal responsibility that everyone has to shoulder. Like it or not, we all live on the same planet and our actions always have consequences for people other than ourselves.

 
Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
welfare programs are set up so that the people least able to financially support their children are encouraged to breed nonstop and this is where most of the problem is coming from.

This is total myth. Poverty is a very dynamic problem with many moving parts and you really should try and educate yourself on a subject before you start throwing around statements you can't back up. Here's a report from the American Psychological Association that goes into the subject in depth.

Here's a quote that directly contradicts your statement:
Quote
The belief that single women are promiscuous and have large families to receive increased benefits has no basis in extant research, and single-parent families are not only a phenomenon of the poor (McFate, 1995). In fact, the average family size of welfare recipients has decreased from four in 1969 to 2.8 in 1994 (Staff of House Committee on Ways and Means, 1996). In 1994, 43 percent of welfare families consisted of one child, and 30 percent consisted of two children. Thus, the average welfare family is no larger than the average nonrecipient's family, and despite considerable public concern that welfare encourages out-of-wedlock births, a growing body of empirical evidence indicates that welfare benefits are not a significant incentive for childbearing (Wilcox, Robbennolt, O'Keeffe, & Pynchon, 1997).
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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
The quote that you show there seems like it talks directly about single women/out of wedlock women, not low-income persons.

  
Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
The quote that you show there seems like it talks directly about single women/out of wedlock women, not low-income persons.

Most welfare recipients are single women. Welfare recipients are, by definition, low-income persons.
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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
Ok, fair enough. :)

So it's not true that lower income individuals don't have a higher propensity for having children than lower income?

What about education levels?

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
Also, among first world nations crime rates and inequality have been shown to be directly proportional to each other. Like, it's the only strong correlation statisticians could find amongst the first world regarding crime rates. And people tend to trust each other more as inequality falls.

Redistribution can work. I mean, its been done before. Obviously you can't confiscate wealth without provoking violent resistance, but other methods - progressive taxation combines with large social spending, renegotiation of consumer debts - have successfully produced a peaceful redistribution of wealth in the past. History is littered with societies whose political and social structure was annihilated by class warfare(the Roman Republic, the Byzantine empire in the 11th century, the French revolution, etc.), but there are plenty of examples where inequality reached a crisis point and redistribution occurred peacefully - Solon's reforms and 1930s America are the most famous examples. In America's case, it wouldn't be too hard to put back in highly progressive taxes and improvements on bankruptcy law. The political talking heads would denounce it, but get enough public pressure and it can be done.

Also, as an aside, Europe is completely screwed unless Germany agrees to support the debt much more strongly than it's willing to now (not happening, Merkel is already walking on very thin ice with the German public already), or if the members of the EU come to their senses and realizes the Euro zone is a disaster without some fiscal integration and the Union needs to be able to spend or borrow money as a whole. Viva la eurobonds.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 05:51:02 pm by Mr. Vega »
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
Vaguely.

On the other hand the US has been carrying worsening private debt since Reagan, which promises to be a bigger problem.
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Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
The US can still expand its way out of debt if it's willing to spend money now. The longer it waits the more the recovery will cost. Europe doesn't have the same policy tools so their choices are more restricted.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
Vaguely.

On the other hand the US has been carrying worsening private debt since Reagan, which promises to be a bigger problem.

The trillions in unfunded future liabilities is a time delay nuclear bomb. Private debt crises threaten the economy, but sovereign debt crises can do nasty things like destroy your currency which is worse.
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Offline Nuke

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
thers no way around it, we got to tax the **** out of/impale the rich, then feed the poor to the middle class.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
But there is no middle class.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
exactly!
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline Kosh

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Re: Regarding the "job shortages"
Forgot to reply to this earlier, too late to edit my original post so here it goes:

Quote
Also, as an aside, Europe is completely screwed unless Germany agrees to support the debt much more strongly than it's willing to now (not happening, Merkel is already walking on very thin ice with the German public already), or if the members of the EU come to their senses and realizes the Euro zone is a disaster without some fiscal integration and the Union needs to be able to spend or borrow money as a whole. Viva la eurobonds.

As I understand it fiscal integration is illegal under current German laws and I don't see the political will to change that. However, even if some of the debt riddled PIIGS left the Eurozone, that would actually strengthen the Euro by removing their toxic balance sheets from the overall equation. The French and German banks that recklessly lent so much money to them would likely be bailed out (IMO they shouldn't be), but at least it resolves the currency crisis. 40% of Greek GDP depends on government, this was a formula for failure and frankly they were allowed to get a free ride off of the Euro for much too long. 
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