Author Topic: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm  (Read 24482 times)

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Offline Fury

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
Sure, but when you look back at games like Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment, they were 'indie' by today's standards. Sometimes it just takes a certain small dedicated team to make a gem.  ;)
They were not indie by the standards of the day they were developed and published on.

That said, I have nothing against indie games. There are some very good indie games out there and I'm sure those three are among them, I just haven't played those. My most recent indie game I bought is Orcs Must Die! It's a blast, I recommend.

 

Offline Thaeris

  • Can take his lumps
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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
That's because all the good ideas in science ficition has been taken. Its almost impossible to write something without its themes being repeated.

This is something people always say without really understanding, and usually that means they're wrong.

Most themes have been repeated.  It really is hard to be original in base concept.

So be original in execution and quality.  That's not nearly as hard, despite what the flood of titles these days would have you believe.

At some level, everything has been done before. However, there are n-ways to do anything, and finding a new way to tell a story is never an impossibility. A good writer should always be able a find a way to communicate the fundimentals necessary in describing the human experiance, or some other aspect relevant to the observer/reader, etc., which makes the story worthwhile to said observer/reader, etc. And the above example may not apply in all situations either, of course.

The thing to also keep in mind is that the ratio of good to bad media will... generally always be in favor of the bad. You probably tend to thing everything was better in the past as you tend to forget all the terrible products (an even better example, novels) from way-back-when, only focusing on the good ones.

Thus concludes my observations on the obvious.

Sure, but when you look back at games like Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment, they were 'indie' by today's standards. Sometimes it just takes a certain small dedicated team to make a gem.  ;)
They were not indie by the standards of the day they were developed and published on.

That said, I have nothing against indie games. There are some very good indie games out there and I'm sure those three are among them, I just haven't played those. My most recent indie game I bought is Orcs Must Die! It's a blast, I recommend.

Oh indie games, how I love thee. :yes:

...Writing in recent games would make a good split topic, but I'd rather not prompt the split further.
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It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


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Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
Sure, but when you look back at games like Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment, they were 'indie' by today's standards. Sometimes it just takes a certain small dedicated team to make a gem.  ;)
They were not indie by the standards of the day they were developed and published on.

The point I'm making is that it's the absolute size of the team that matters, not the standards of the day.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
Who else is hoping Mengsk will finally die now? He really deserves whatever ass-kicking Kerrigan has in mind for him, if you ask me.

Leaked ending says Kerrigan kills Mengsk after an awful ****ty line.

Quote
Can anyone please elaborate on the horribleness of Wings of Liberty's story as mentioned by Battuta and NGTM-1R?

ugh where do I begin

Campaign is about 30 missions. The story starts at mission 25. In the 25 missions before that:

1. You do side quests
2. Your buddy Tychus helps you out
3. People constantly warn you that someone on the ship is working for the Dominion and Mengsk has a gun to his/her head
4. Your buddy Tychus was mysteriously released from prison and is locked inside his suit and his suit is receiving mysterious signals
5. Raynor is puzzled about who could possibly be working for the Dominion.

Okay, I lied, there's a bit of macroplot:

1. Kerrigan invades the Dominion. This kills billions of people, is seen entirely off-screen, causes no particular panic or alarm in the characters, and is never really mentioned
2. Raynor takes missions to grab a few Xel'naga artifacts. It turns out Kerrigan is after them too. She races you to catch them by doing devastatingly clever things like

searching apartment buildings one by one

saying 'I'll get you next time, Jimmy!'

In mission 25 Raynor teams up with Valerian Mengsk to assemble the artifacts and attack Char. It turns out the artifacts build a miraculous Xel'naga Kerrigan-deinfesting machine. With just one push of the button, it can reverse Kerrigan's arc from Brood War!

(remember that great moment in brood war when jimmy was all 'you're beyond redemption, kerrigan, next time, for fenix, i'm going to kill you?' yeah that doesn't matter any more)

A chunk of the Dominion fleet and Raynor's one battlecruiser attack Char.

Remember, this is Char, where the whole Swarm has been holed up, evolving, since the end of Brood War.

The end of Brood War where Kerrigan wiped out a coordinated attack by the Dominion, UED, and Protoss.

Naturally, a much smaller Terran-only force does perfectly fine, lands on Char, never faces any serious problems because Jimmy's here, don't worry, and de-infests Kerrigan.

Tychus' big secret turns out to have been that he was working with Mengsk and he's supposed to kill Kerrigan.

Wow, Mengsk, nice planning. You let Tychus run rampant and help out in missions that nearly brought down your government, you didn't use him to track Raynor or anything like that - you just counted on the contrived long odds that at some point he'd be in shooting range of a helpless Queen of Blades. Sure.

But Raynor kills Tychus, fin

****ty ****ty piece of ****, also i failed to describe how all the writing was terrible because IT'S TIME TO KICK THIS REVOLUTION

INTO OVERDRIVE

e: oh there's an even more ****awful part

In a series of side missions Zeratul gives you via a psychic dream crystal, you learn about THE PROPHECY and THE CHOSEN ONE who is the only one who can stop THE DARKNESS

Zeratul has learned that a mysterious force named THE FALLEN O

sorry I had to stop to puke

THE FALLEN ONE has been manipulating events for eons! He corrupted the Zerg into ravenous beasts focused on destroying the Protoss! Fortunately, the well-meaning, good-hearted Overmind (i'm serious, the overmind was just 'manipulated') created Kerrigan to lead the swarm against DIABL no wait SARGER no hang on THE FALLEN ONE and his evil army of Protoss-Zerg hybrids!

In a vision of the distant future we see the Protoss race being wiped out because Kerrigan was killed and couldn't fulfill her destiny and now THE FALLEN ONE will plunge the whole universe into utter darkness

oh and tassadar isn't dead, he struck himself down but became powerful than you can imagine, now he hangs out with the spirit of the brovermind

welp

This made my morning. Thank you, bromang.

:yes:

Indeed. Excellent sumation.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

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Offline Nuke

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
let me reiterate how far down a good story is on my list of things a game must have before il buy it. its probably not even on the first page. when i want a story, i go to the movies, turn on the tv, or on the rare occasion im not feeling lazy, i read a book. some of my all time favorite games have practically no story at all. doom and quake between them probably had 4 pages of story in the game. carmageddon had no plot at all and was still quite epic, decent 1 and 2 (especially the former) had enough story to tell you what to do, almost every combat flight sim i own has zero story at all.

i think that the role of story in a game is simply to establish your objectives. you need just enough information to tell you what you need to be doing. if it happens to be entertaining or adds to immersion then so much the better. too much story can be just as much of a game killer. i hate games that make you watch a 10 minute cutscene before you are allowed to do anything. especially games where your kicking ass and all the sudden the game cuts to some story content that really just ruins your momentum.

maybe this is because of the era i grew up with. i mean i played atari when i was 5, went through the 8 bit, the 16 bit and the 32 bit eras, and switched to computer games from consoles before i finished high school. i also tended towards action games that had little or no story. i was big on early fps games, played descent 1 and 2 to death. i also liked games for their artistic qualities, always enjoys getting the latest state of the art fps game just to enjoy the graphics. i might play through it 2 or 3 times tops but its still worth it. most of the games i play im bored with after i beat it. usually il play through a second and then commit it to the cd case. time so when i get a game like sc2 and i play it for months straight instead of for a couple weeks, i tend to give that game a rather high rating.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
i hate games that make you watch a 10 minute cutscene before you are allowed to do anything.

that's not an example of a game with a good or developed story, that's an example of ****ty design

whatever your preferences, starcraft 2 puts a lot of money and effort into having A STORY, and it turns out to be total ****! pretty hard to ignore the smell no matter how great the gameplay and mission design may be

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
i hate games that make you watch a 10 minute cutscene before you are allowed to do anything.

that's not an example of a game with a good or developed story, that's an example of ****ty design

whatever your preferences, starcraft 2 puts a lot of money and effort into having A STORY, and it turns out to be total ****! pretty hard to ignore the smell no matter how great the gameplay and mission design may be

No words to express how much I'm agreeing with Battsy here.
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
doom and quake
decent 1 and 2
DOS4life :D

 

Offline Mikes

  • 29
Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
That already happened with Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment and others and no one plays them any more because they're going on 15 years old.

With respect. You are quite wrong in this point. People not only still play these games, they enjoy them just as much as in when they wear released, especially first time players.
Good writing is very much timeless - compared to games where the main attraction is some 3d graphics that age horribly fast anyways.

Heck, my most recent playthrough of Torment was just about 1 year ago... and it was definitely gaming time well spent - much better than with some of the recent socalled Blockbusters for sure. ;)
Amazingly...  with the available high res mods the old 2d artwork looks absolutely glorious in 1920x1200.

Even more amazing: With the GemRB ports that are available you can even play all the Infinity Engine games on your cellphone or 10" tablet... and on that platform there seriously isn't any game out that  can even remotely compare to what BG / PS:TM or even IWD etc. have to offer.


 

Offline Firstdragon34

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
Okay, I'll admit there are ways to communicate a theme, but to create a fresh new story that the world hasn't really heard of is hard, maybe I'm using other people's ideas too much.

I think games now need the writing that Knights of the Old Republic had. The game might be aging, but I loved the story and the dialogue. Its sequel was really good, but it could've used another year of development.

If you think my thinking is shallow, I welcome your suggestions for other games that would work on my Laptop.

Your fellow gamer, Snow Dragon aka (Firstdragon34)
A small voice in my head tells me they are have followed us here in the Milky Way. They follow us until we are dead at their feet. We are nomands of the stars, no longer the race that was loved by the Great Elders. My name is Kyral and this is my story of survival.

There is no sanctuary for us, in this Universe. We will fight the Terror for one last time on this Shining World. May the Transcendent judge us kindly in the Life Stream.

 

Offline mxlm

  • 29
Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
Curious, all three are indie games, not AAA titles.
It's not a comprehensive list.
I will ask that you explain yourself. Please do so with the clear understanding that I may decide I am angry enough to destroy all of you and raze this sickening mausoleum of fraud down to the naked rock it stands on.

 
Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
Deus Ex: HR. Everything Obsidian has made.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
That already happened with Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment and others and no one plays them any more because they're going on 15 years old.

With respect. You are quite wrong in this point. People not only still play these games, they enjoy them just as much as in when they wear released, especially first time players.
Good writing is very much timeless - compared to games where the main attraction is some 3d graphics that age horribly fast anyways.

Indeed. I replayed BG2 and ID a few months ago...They stil hold up nicely.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
doom and quake
decent 1 and 2
DOS4life :D

i especially liked the days of the voodoo board. the games that had 3d acceleration under native dos were epic. i think you could get 120fps out of the voodoo version of descent2. these games were meant to run in software, so when 3d acceleration was added and you didnt have the overhead of an os or any middleware, every resource of the computer were at the game's disposal.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
Not really Nuke. Or did you forget about 640KB conventional memory limit that MS-DOS had? It was such a ***** to tweak autoexec.bat and config.sys to use upper memory area (384KB) in as many loaded drivers and applications as possible. "Only 2KB more and I can launch the game, only 2KB more...!"

 

Offline bigchunk1

  • bigchunk1 = Awesome²
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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
haha, I don't think I ever considered how bad the plot for SC2 was.

I remember at the ending I was more or less at the edge of my seat, an invested participant after playing a large 30 minute battle.

"Oh what Tychus is guna shoot Kerrigan...un watch out he's guna...&^%##... whoa! Raynor just shot his friend Tychus! It just went down! Dis is amazing!"

Haha, I'm a simple minded creature. I never even stopped to think about how much that didn't make sense.

Yeah, the plot is bad I agree, but blizzard tried to make it fun. You could click around in that cantina to get as much or as little of the tidbits that was going on in the Koprulu sector. Those blizzard cutscenes are always stunning to me with very well made effects. I think I heard that for those cutscenes, every frame gets individualised attention. Also, The whole 'sidequest' thing seemed to be a choose your own adventure format where you make decisions like side with colonists or purge them to halt the zerg infestation. That kind of stuff was interesting to me, even though it was not part of the main plotline and served no 'purpose'.

I will say however, Zeratual and the zerg protoss xel-naga hybrid thing did make me puke my insides a bit. I predict that the SC2 plot will end with the 3 races, zerg protoss and terran somehow banding together to fight this randomly created menace. Sort of reminds me of watching action cartoons when I was younger where they just invented random enemies for the familiar characters to fight until the season ended.

You know for the past few years, blizzard has been holding a writing competition. I think they're looking for ideas.
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Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
I will say however, Zeratual and the zerg protoss xel-naga hybrid thing did make me puke my insides a bit. I predict that the SC2 plot will end with the 3 races, zerg protoss and terran somehow banding together to fight this randomly created menace.

Except the hybrids aren't just some "randomly created menace", they were foreshadowed in the end of Brood War.

Reminds me of The Dark Crystal, actually...

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
I will say however, Zeratual and the zerg protoss xel-naga hybrid thing did make me puke my insides a bit. I predict that the SC2 plot will end with the 3 races, zerg protoss and terran somehow banding together to fight this randomly created menace.

Except the hybrids aren't just some "randomly created menace", they were foreshadowed in the end of Brood War.

What was foreshadowed was something interesting and possibly intriguing but since Starcraft 2 was written by different (stupid) people or possibly the same people after an orbital lobotomy and a direct transcranial money injection it became something horrible and incestuous

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
I will say however, Zeratual and the zerg protoss xel-naga hybrid thing did make me puke my insides a bit. I predict that the SC2 plot will end with the 3 races, zerg protoss and terran somehow banding together to fight this randomly created menace.

Except the hybrids aren't just some "randomly created menace", they were foreshadowed in the end of Brood War.

What was foreshadowed was something interesting and possibly intriguing but since Starcraft 2 was written by different (stupid) people or possibly the same people after an orbital lobotomy and a direct transcranial money injection it became something horrible and incestuous

ROTFLMAO.  This.  Seriously, this.

I do hope Duran gets more airtime in HotS.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Sololop

  • 28
Re: Star Craft II Heart of the Swarm
I'm going to get HotS. Being someone who has poured countless hours into Vanilla SC and BW, I have not given up hope.

Though, from what WoL showed me, and what I hear about HotS, it's going to be rough.

Luckily, the multiplayer is still fun, for me, anyhoo.