[TrashMan]

There was zero continuity, it was basically a reboot

For better or worse though C2 did end up with a much better-written story on the dialogue level -- I'm not sure the plot was any better but it certainly wasn't any worse. (I'm not arguing with you about this though since we both know that's pointless)

Indeed. Your'e probably right in the reboot thing. It made no sense.

C1 ended with aliens taking out 2 entire fleets, creting a giant ice bubble over an isnald and aliens sqiddy things spreading all over. Also, the nano-suit functioned completely differently in it's basic cincept.

C2 throws that in the gutter. Doing a totally unbelievable "coverup", changing the aliens, changing the suit, chaning...everything.

Better on a dialogue-written level? Don't see how. I don't see it as any better or worse there.


Now, speaking on ME2 and 3.
ME2 was dissapointing for me (in the story department). It was a fun game, but it had too much flaws for me to consider it better than ME1.

ME3...wel..I'm waiting too see the extent of the damage the story/plot/setting will suffer.

[MP-Ryan]

Expecting Bioware to have good stories is like expecting Obsidian to ship a bug-free game. Abandon all hope of a satisfying or surprising macroplot and just go in for the character moments and 80s action movie feel.

I mean **** Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games and I will not for a moment pretend that anything about its overall plot mattered in any way to the ME setting or did anything to advance the story. It was just a fun atmosphere and character piece.

It's a strange situation when BioWare has both the best and worst writing of any game company.  Maybe the problem is that they have character writers writing over-arching plots, and artists defining certain plot elements.  I think we can all agree that the undeniably worst thing about ME2 was the ridiculous final boss sequence.  Up until then there wasn't much advancing the Mass Effect universe storyline, but at least it was entertaining.

[LordPomposity]

Expecting Bioware to have good stories is like expecting Obsidian to ship a bug-free game. Abandon all hope of a satisfying or surprising macroplot and just go in for the character moments and 80s action movie feel.

I mean **** Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games and I will not for a moment pretend that anything about its overall plot mattered in any way to the ME setting or did anything to advance the story. It was just a fun atmosphere and character piece.

Agreed for the most part, although I'd contend that ME1 and DA1 both had pretty good stories. The writers just screwed the pooch when it came to the overarching plots of both sequels.

Either that, or they were writing entire games worth of positioning and setup, which I still count as screwing the pooch.

I think we can all agree that the undeniably worst thing about ME2 was the ridiculous final boss sequence. 

The blatant and nonsensical railroading implemented to get the player's party off the Normandy when the Reaper IFF is installed (something dangerous might happen, so we should get rid of everyone capable of protecting the ship from danger!) is certainly a contender, but yeah.

[StarSlayer]

I generally assumed the whole Collector issue could have been solved by parking a Dreadnought on the Omega Relay and waiting for them to stick their noses out.

[LordPomposity]

I generally assumed the whole Collector issue could have been solved by parking a Dreadnought on the Omega Relay and waiting for them to stick their noses out.

Sadly, all the politicians who could authorize the deployment of a dreadnought are evil, stupid, or both. Or something like that.

[Herra Tohtori]

I generally assumed the whole Collector issue could have been solved by parking a Dreadnought on the Omega Relay and waiting for them to stick their noses out.

Why waste a dreadnought when an asteroid would suffice perfectly well?*

This actually reminds me of a wonderful way to troll commercial traffic in I-War 2: Edge of Chaos. Park something big in front of Lagrange point, wait for a cargo container transport to come through and splatter the containers everywhere, then pick up the pieces...


*Assuming that mass relays don't have sophisticated collision prevention mechanisms.

Sadly, all the politicians who could authorize the deployment of a dreadnought are evil, stupid, or both. Or something like that.

Ah yes, the Collectors. Indoctrinated remnant of the Prothean species allegedly harvesting human colonies into the Galactic Centre.

We have dismissed that claim.

[StarSlayer]

I generally assumed the whole Collector issue could have been solved by parking a Dreadnought on the Omega Relay and waiting for them to stick their noses out.

Why waste a dreadnought when an asteroid would suffice perfectly well?*

This actually reminds me of a wonderful way to troll commercial traffic in I-War 2: Edge of Chaos. Park something big in front of Lagrange point, wait for a cargo container transport to come through and splatter the containers everywhere, then pick up the pieces...


*Assuming that mass relays don't have sophisticated collision prevention mechanisms.

I read about 2/3rds of the way through before I realized you wanted to use the asteroid as a navigational hazard rather then in an "Arrival" fashion.  I was slightly horrified you would destroy as awesome a hub world as Omega Station

[NGTM-1R]

You'd need more than one asteroid. Joker makes it pretty clear the plus-minus on arrival from a relay is in the tens of thousands of KM normally in the first game.

[Firstdragon34]

I'm slightly fuming that Bioware took all the good ideas! I'm stuck with a story that everybody heard of! Well, maybe playing the games will help me. . . .

[TrashMan]

I think we can all agree that the undeniably worst thing about ME2 was the ridiculous final boss sequence. 

The blatant and nonsensical railroading implemented to get the player's party off the Normandy when the Reaper IFF is installed (something dangerous might happen, so we should get rid of everyone capable of protecting the ship from danger!) is certainly a contender, but yeah.

You are forgetting Shepards death and the Lazarus project.

Or the Collector ship (idiot balls galore)

Or a whole slew of toher unanswered questions (where did Morodin get the bug? Why are guardian lasers not lasers? Why aren't they used agaisnt he occulus? Why do they go trouhg Omega 4 blind?)

[Ace]

Expecting Bioware to have good stories is like expecting Obsidian to ship a bug-free game. Abandon all hope of a satisfying or surprising macroplot and just go in for the character moments and 80s action movie feel.

I mean **** Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games and I will not for a moment pretend that anything about its overall plot mattered in any way to the ME setting or did anything to advance the story. It was just a fun atmosphere and character piece.

It's a strange situation when BioWare has both the best and worst writing of any game company.  Maybe the problem is that they have character writers writing over-arching plots, and artists defining certain plot elements.  I think we can all agree that the undeniably worst thing about ME2 was the ridiculous final boss sequence.  Up until then there wasn't much advancing the Mass Effect universe storyline, but at least it was entertaining.

Well another issue is EA demanding quick turn arounds on games coupled with splitting into multiple projects at once. So the B team is given Dragon Age 2 on a short time table and... well the result is obvious.

Obsidian has been generally given a bad rap when it comes to bugs, New Vegas being a prime example where they fixed plenty of issues but still got docked for bugs tied to Bethesda's engine work.

Troika's games on the other hand did have some nasty bugs.

[Scotty]

You are forgetting Shepards death and the Lazarus project.

Or the Collector ship (idiot balls galore)

Or a whole slew of toher unanswered questions (where did Morodin get the bug? Why are guardian lasers not lasers? Why aren't they used agaisnt he occulus? Why do they go trouhg Omega 4 blind?)

1) sounds like personal preference.  Would you have preferred Shepherd be all of a sudden "hurr durr I'mma work with Cerberus now" out of the blue?  Didn't think so.

2) explain please.

3) You get him one on the planet you meet your former squadmate on.  I thought that was pretty bleeding obvious.  Guardian lasers aren't lasers for the same reason ML-16 lasers aren't lasers; because the word laser sounds cool.  Do you think you could hit a target that small that is maneuvering that wildly while you're moving that fast through debris field as tightly clumped as that?  If yes, you left reality a few parsecs back.

[newman]

I think we can all agree that the undeniably worst thing about ME2 was the ridiculous final boss sequence. 

Yes, the enlarged Cyberdine Systems model 101 didn't seem to quite "click" in the ME universe.. I kept expecting it to ask any of my female NPC companions whether or not they were Sarah Connor.

[TrashMan]

You are forgetting Shepards death and the Lazarus project.

Or the Collector ship (idiot balls galore)

Or a whole slew of toher unanswered questions (where did Morodin get the bug? Why are guardian lasers not lasers? Why aren't they used agaisnt he occulus? Why do they go trough Omega 4 blind?)

1) sounds like personal preference.  Would you have preferred Shepherd be all of a sudden "hurr durr I'mma work with Cerberus now" out of the blue?  Didn't think so.

Nah, it's simply horribly done. Sheps death as a plot device is compeltely under-used. It has NO impact on the story. Shep's like "I was dead. No I'm alive? Cool." and forgets about it. It goes nowhere.
Frankly I tihnk it's nothing mroe than a cheap marketing stunt (the KIA trailer).
Either way, if they wanted to keep Shep out of action for a while and explain why he works for TIM, they cfould have done it in a bajjilion better ways.
Have Shep in a coma (and not broken, dead and rotting on a planet for a month before being MAGICLY revived). OR have Cerberus retrive Sheps body and put it in stasis minutes after the fall.
Or friggin use Sheps death in the story. It make more sense for your former allies to not believe you are still alive (thinking you an impostor), so you don't get support from the council and that's why you go to Cerberus. Not this "Yo Shep. I heard yo was wroking for Cerbereus, so we all hates you now!"

2) explain please.

Worst trap and worst data retrieval in history.

The collectors decide to let Shep go that deep into the ship - in a room with plenty of cover. They let him reach one of the main terminals. They didn't block his path back or destroy his shuttle. And the best thing they can think of to spring a trap is to send a bunch of guys with guns. They didn't evne bring enough guys (tehy should have a massive numerical advantage)

Shep, the idiot that he is, takes no precautions. The Collector ship is powered down? How about making sure it STAYS down before you board it. Cripple it's engine and main gun while it's helpless.

Do I really need to go on?

3) You get him one on the planet you meet your former squadmate on.  I thought that was pretty bleeding obvious.  Guardian lasers aren't lasers for the same reason ML-16 lasers aren't lasers; because the word laser sounds cool.  Do you think you could hit a target that small that is maneuvering that wildly while you're moving that fast through debris field as tightly clumped as that?  If yes, you left reality a few parsecs back.

No. You get to the colony AFTER Morodin creates a couintermeasure (from a captured bug).
Aparently, Collectors left no traces of their presence before. So where does the bug come from?

[Luis Dias]

"why aren't lasers lasers"?

Have these people ever played this game called "Freespace 2"?

[StarSlayer]

Sheps death as a plot device is compeltely under-used.

I admit I would have really liked for this to have been utilized more.  Personally, I always thought that there should have been some kind of mental/emotional impact on Shepard from all the trials and travails s/he has dealt with over the course of the two games.   Between being brutally killed and resurrected, not to mention caring the burden of what's in store and having the Cypher rolling around in her or his head I'm  surprised they don't go up to their cabin roll up into a ball and rock back in forth for hours. 

Granted Shep is supposed to be the gamer avatar, but I would expect there to be some personal consequences to what s/he has experienced along the way.  In my opinion it would have enriched the character more.

[Scotty]

No. You get to the colony AFTER Morodin creates a couintermeasure (from a captured bug).
Aparently, Collectors left no traces of their presence before. So where does the bug come from?

Ah, my mistake.  Next most likely scenario is he gets one from Veetor.  They sure left traces there, or there'd be very little game after that.

The Collector ship idiot balls can be best explained as "We don't want to be colossal assholes to the player.  Let's give them a chance to actually beat this mission, hmm?"

[General Battuta]

I admit I would have really liked for this to have been utilized more.  Personally, I always thought that there should have been some kind of mental/emotional impact on Shepard from all the trials and travails s/he has dealt with over the course of the two games.   Between being brutally killed and resurrected, not to mention caring the burden of what's in store and having the Cypher rolling around in her or his head I'm  surprised they don't go up to their cabin roll up into a ball and rock back in forth for hours.

Apparently they were going for a more war-weary approach to the voice acting in ME3 but test audiences hated it (**** YOU TEST AUDIENCES)

[NGTM-1R]

Between being brutally killed and resurrected

Death by decompression is apparently quite quick and more or less painless, actually, so Shep's short on grand traumas. Similarly it's not like you were conscious while they put you back together, so the resurrection bit doesn't have much traumatic experience either.

All in all what Shep actually experienced probably wasn't that different from fainting in terror and waking up.

[StarSlayer]

Between being brutally killed and resurrected

Death by decompression is apparently quite quick and more or less painless, actually, so Shep's short on grand traumas. Similarly it's not like you were conscious while they put you back together, so the resurrection bit doesn't have much traumatic experience either.

All in all what Shep actually experienced probably wasn't that different from fainting in terror and waking up.

Getting bounced around an exploding Normandy and most likely breaking a bunch of bones followed by suffocating from a slow leak doesn't exactly rank high on my ways to go.  She certainly seemed to be freaking the hell out in the cutscene